There are more Important Issues then just Hackers.

Kai Beginner Joined: 09 Oct 2004 Posts: 31

This will suprise alot of you by what I'm about to write. Once again my clan come under fire from some scrub who came from XBC.

Bottom Line we don't cheat and those who have known us from the start know this as well. And about orange Z you guys could just leave him alone he doesn't cheat either we all know this.

I mean damn are we the focus of everybodies attention? We are getting alot of it here lately. And jesta I have nothing bad to say to you bro never have you are good peeps. But I think Kai needs a make over something bad.

You guys worry about hacks n shit when there are always bigger issues on Kai. Need an example ?... The racism on Kai boils me more then any hack out there it.

The "N" word some of you love to just roll out mouth would get you rolled out in a wheel chair around here. So I'm wondering what is Kai doing about this issue?..

Hell for those who know me personally know that I'm not racist at all. So my next question is and sorry for being so blunt but hell can we get a mod that is black who knows the everyday bullshit we as African Americans have to deal with on an everyday basis anyway without Kai.?..

People who use it we say something about it they get kicked or whatever then I see them the next day like it's cool shit. You ban people for hacking but what about the racism you let them say there shit ban them for 10 minutes and they come back?.... So the question I got for those who run this fine gaming site what about those of color do we get a fair shake at what goes on here?..

This subject is one of the upmost importance so answer it with care this could be the begining of an even greater Kai. I hope this subject gets the respect it deserves. Answer with care.

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:32 am

everything you said is absolutely right. I live in the city and there are people of so many different cultures, you respect one another. Sadly some people are so ignorant. Their secluded from the real world and they wind up giving in to sterotypes. Hopefully teamxlink will make it a priority to get rid of racism on kai.

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:04 am

Frankly, and this has been in almost every encounter, the racists on Kai (and XBC) are generally Americans.

It's clear in the AUP - prove someone's been racist and they're banned for good. Now via chat logs that's achievable, but over headsets, it's quite impossible unless we get lots of people we know and trust saying the same thing about a particular person.

We're not concerned about hackers. Most people banned are cheaters and racists.

When you talk about people getting kicked, that's the person who owns the arena doing that. If we're notified of these things, we take action and take them out for good.

Kai Beginner Joined: 09 Oct 2004 Posts: 31

We'll see what they do & how serious they are about this cause I'm dying to know myself.

I'm eagerly waiting on a reply 20 or more looks but nobody has replied yet so we'll see.

They can't miss it its the first topic on this page.

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:35 am

Who are you referring to with "they" - I take it fucking seriously. Racism is horrible, and I've been subjected to it on Kai before because of my accent, and those 2 guys found themselves gone from Kai within 5 minutes of not stopping.

We're all human - we've all got lives. Team XLink might sound like we're some multinational organisation with offices all over the world, but we're not. We don't have someone sitting around all day looking out for racists. Bottom line is that, you have to realistic in what we're able to do for free and in our spare time.

There are "undercover" agents that work on certain investigations sometimes.

Also take in to consideration that most of us don't have the time for checking up on all this stuff. taz, duke_uk, SS-Funk and maybe a couple others handle this sorta stuff on most occasions, but they're also 100% occupied with weplayhere.net stuff.

Just like the real police who are often under-resourced and underpaid, so are we.

Team XLink Administrator Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 3354

I find it sad that you can only come here and speak to us as if we are the ones doing this. Did you read anywhere on the site that says this is okay to do? My question to you is this. What are you doing to prevent it? I know personally if someone discriminated against me I would take action on it and report that person to the proper person to get the jerk removed. I would not complain to someone that was not involved and then give them nothing to help the situation.

I know I have been in a room where people say to each other, “What up my ‘N’?” only to hear a response like, “Chillin, and you dowg?”. If you want others to respect you, you should show respect to yourself first. Now when I say you, I do not mean you so don’t take that out of context. Point is this, we do what we can. And you should as well.

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:18 am

This is the perfect reason why people avoid this topic because when its brought up insted of constuctive and enlightening conversation to stimulate better understanding and communication. As usual someone takes it personally instead of looking at the bigger issues.

No one blaming anyone but the issue does exist and should be addressed Thank you TD for your thoughts on the issue. You guys run Kai everyone knows you cant be held responsible for all the idiots who use this great tunneling software but some things do need to be worked on.

Funk Yes we do use the N word but not hatefully and those other than african americans who use it in the same vain arent degraded or jumped on but to use it in a malicous conotation should be dealt with harshly. Any blatantly offensive racist statement to any race should be watch and those who violate should be dealt with. Who disagrees with that, hopefully no one.

No ones blaming you but with great power comes great responsibility this is a real issue that should not be brushed aside but talked about to insure a better enviorment for all of us who love this community.

Why is it when a hard question is asked people say dont blame me instead of what can we do to find an answer?

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:25 am

TD didn't post here, it was me.

Seriously though, when people had an issue, I've received emails regarding it and I've taken action. So far I haven't received anything from the TA guys. I'm not going to go ask every user - "was someone racist to you today?"..

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:36 am

sorry dfunked I was trippin Very Happy

Truthfully I wouldnt bother you with it you are doing other things we do tell moderators and we usually have a lot of luck (fortunatly we have good friends who are mods Very Happy

) but for others in weaker positions it can be a real bad time, but its ussually only a day long ban and then there back im not gonna keep bitchin in your ear cause eventually you wont hear me when i really need you to. So what do we do as you said you guys are busy doing other important things but that doesnt stop this from being an issue.

I am not in anyway blaming the xlink staff yaw my peeps but I do think we all can help curve the problem of racist on kai/

Sorry again dfunked i saw admin and ass sumed Very Happy

Kai Beginner Joined: 09 Oct 2004 Posts: 31

Let's not forget who came to who about this. When I said they I was talking about the response time in your replies. You took it the wrong way.

Well I tell you guys that this isn't what I asked for and Funk don't start shit you know what I'm talkin about when I say there is a difference when WE say it the when others say it. And I respect myself enough to bring this to your attention. Never question my respect for myself or for my clan. Though your replied could be triggered by certain members of your faction wanting to come to our faction. I think most of your replies will be a lash at me and my clan right now. I'm not kissin your ass Funk cause your an Admin you should have more compassion on matters such as this. This issue could be a little too deep for you to comprehend. Instead of helping you come at me like I bothered you about it or it isn't serious enough.

I'm waiting to get banned for speaking my mind on a subject that is awefully serious.

And dfunked bro this is a serious issue and I know you know that. But I'm shocked at some of the replies though considering I came to you guys about it and somehow it backfires?....

And the Racism you deal with it isn't the same for me even though I know what your saying it doesn't apply to me cause it's about the color of ones skin what I'm talkin about.

Help don't lash out at me and I brought this to the light.. How about that moderator I talked about?... I got an answer for everything else why not that one?.. Let me see maybe you were too busy complaining about my complaint to see that there is a problem.

Work with me here boyz we need solutions here I'm all for the community been here awhile but I will not be talked down to about an issue I brought to your attention.

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:53 am

Ok, ok, .. evryone take a deep breath...WwhewW.... (don't do it to em war machine Wink

)

Sounds to me like we have a falure to communicate. War you brought this up and dfunked's reply showed he viewed it siriuosly. This isn't a debate on diffrent kinds of racism, it's all bad and should not be tollerated AT ALL, I think we all agree on this. Dfunked and the other mods are busy people with real lives and can't be in all games at all times to police evry word and action.. this is where the community comes in. We as users have to make sure that we don't tolerate it either.

War- when someone starts this crap get his kai tag and report him, the more witnessess the better. It sounds like to me that teamxlink is more than willing to dish out perminate bans to convicted racist. Who were you having a problem with? I don't know if it's possible to ban ip's but it would be nice if TD could code something that would allow us to reach through the T.V. and smack the hell out of these people:wink:

Funk- your good peeps but (if I understood you post correctly) IMHO you could not be more wrong with your "respect yourselves" comment. That's not what War was talking about but, still us refering to eachother with the "N" word is out of respect. This not the place to go into a full blown cultural lesson but sufice it to say the "N" word is used in this context as a sign of deffiance for the racists who gave it the negitive conotation in the first place. Hope I didn't misunderstand and if I did then I apologize in advance.

Kai Admirer Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 400

A serious subject indeed.

As said previously, I don't think there is a full proof way of eliminating this. Kai is free to use by all. Which means any john doe can come in and start shit talking or come out with racist comments. I think all we can do is try and encourage the community to give a some respect to the other Kai players. It's not just about the racism but discrimination in general. I've heard racists in game but I ignor it. I still remember someone making a remark from a well known clan on Kai that could be considered as racist but I will not name names here. I have been in games where people disgriminate because the person stuttered when he spoke. I have been in games where people disgriminate when people don't have a headset. I have heard about kids being disgriminated against just because they are kids. It happends at all levels. Not just racism. And I think it's not that easy to change people to see this. Some people don't know what they are doing or find it fun or funny putting other people down with put downs or racist remarks. I guess it depends where you where brought up. It seems to me as time goes by, the world is getting more international. Acceptance of other colored skins in the society is alot higher than say 50 years ago. But I feel though ultimately, racism will never die. It's kind of in our blood to have arguments, fight or goto war. Just look at history.

Team XLink Administrator Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 3354

First off WM, I don’t want you or anyone else to kiss my ass. I don’t do it, so why should others? And all I said is, to a 14 year who hears someone say the word at all, it makes them think they can use it as well. So we will do this, any use of the word in any context will bring a permanent ban to that users name and IP address. The only way they will be able to get their account reactivated will be to write an apology (at least 500 words) for the ignorance they have shown.

What we need from the community is names, chat logs, witnesses, and whatever else we can use to explain why the user was banned. Do not come to me with a problem and no solution. Having an African American Moderator will NOT resolve this problem. You make these comments as if I do not understand what you speak of. Maybe I don’t, but I do know the law and how it works in my country (last I checked, it was yours as well). So if you really want to help remove these fools I would start taking names down and sending them to an admin. We have 11 or so and all of us have the same “power”.

Joined: 30 Jul 2006 Posts: 0

Right,

I've read all of this, and I got a bit to say on a few things.

First up, I've never asked any of my moderators what ethnicity they are - and I never will. I will never specifically recruit a moderator of any ethnicity. End of story. I simply don't care where they're from, if they are right for moderator status - they get it.

Secondly, use of the N word on Kai has been a problem for a long time. You'll notice that if you type the word in any chatroom (I mean the full word, not contracted ending in A) - you will immediately be disconnected from your orbital. This language has never, and will never be tolerated on this service, and if I, or any of my admins or moderators see you saying it, even once, you will be banned forever.

However, something which concerns me is the belief by African-Americans that when they use the N word, "it doesn't matter". It does. If I hear *anyone* use the N word, in *whatever* context, and I hear you, you will be banned. I don't know if this is a more general rant, outside of Kai, but in my honest opinion, we have 2 choices. Either a.) African-Americans are comfortable to use the N word, and we allow everyone to use it, or b.) Nobody uses the N word, or they get banned. I made the decision before XLink even started, after seeing how things were on XBC, that b.) is our policy. There is no room for movement on this, it's set in stone.

To do anything else *would* be racist - ie. "African-Americans are allowed to use the N word, because it's their 'thing' - but nobody else can, because that's racist" - is completely unacceptable.

I am working on a new chunk of orb logic, to allow anyone who is concerned about the direction of a chat to hit a button, and have that chunk of chat reported to a moderator. This will be with you soon. As for headset abusers, the community itself must provide the solution. You all know who your people are - and yes, if you're a tight crew who play in a your own passworded private, and all of you are on the same page with using the N word in the non-racist context, feel free to do that - just know that if you do it anywhere where others can hear you, you will get banned.

TD

Team XLink Administrator Joined: 25 Apr 2004 Posts: 1871

trust me hackers are not our only concern and we do, and always have taken discrimination seriously, anybody can be offended by discrimination your request to have mod recruited because of there racial heritige is not something we endorse, reverse discrimination is not the way to deal with discrimination, as a lot of goverments fail to recognise.

I am from a White European family and I would be horified if I had been selected for a position based upon my racial background, and not my skills.

Our policy on racism is clear.

If we require to further define the policy and give our moderaters a list of words that are unacceptable, so that when they hear them uttered in game, then so be it.

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:28 pm

While I respect your opinnion TD I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on the use of the "N" word. AfroAmericans do not use the "N" word simply becase it's "thier thing". Thats kinda what I was getting at above. I guess that's hard for some people to understand. This topic was not brought up becase people (even some who aren't Afro American) use the word casually in conversation, it was brought up becase of thoes that use it in a completely diffrent context. This might sound confusing but trust me it's as clear as day when someone uses this out of context. I respect that you don't look at the color of someones skin when you choose a modderator. That being said I do see why War would want someone who understood his culture and view point with this "power". To be honest it's almost as offensive to me that you make rules that I can't say the word when I realy don't feel like you can understand or relate our culture/situation. I realize this is your playground though and I will play buy the rules. This is not to offend or ruffle anyones feathers I'm just expressing my opinion. If I haven't said it reacently I do appriciate all the hard work all of you guys do at teamxlink. keep up the good work.

Kai Beginner Joined: 09 Oct 2004 Posts: 31

Thanks guys for the replies I know you guys are doing your best to handle this situation. If I offened anyone of teamxlink members my bad.

But there is a huge difference in when we say it then when people say it just to be an ass. We know the difference it's clear to us I wouldn't expect you to fully understand what I'm talking about. And it's not an issue with those who say it and aren't being racist. For it to be racist I guess you guys never have been called that word before so your understanding the difference in which I speak you might be confused about. And despite what you guys think there IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE in when we say it HUGE but how could you trully understand?.. I'm not mad you guys it's truly I guess a "black thing". hahaha

I just wanted you guys to try understand that it's rough hearing that word when the whole time we're playing having a good time then some jerk comes in and messes things up.

And I hope everybody will do the the best to help rid of this problem with the help of teamxlink we could make Kai even better.

Once again it's easy to take text out of contenet so my bad If I seemed a little irritable. Thanks for the help teamxlink we'll knock this problem out together as a community.

Once again thx. Keep this Topic alive if you guys can please.

Team XLink Administrator Joined: 25 Apr 2004 Posts: 1871

fair enogth we dont want to infringe on people rights to express themselves, and you dont need to be an African American to appreciate how damaging racism or discrimination is.

I think we are getting the whole N* word issue out of context, my personal opinion is the offending someone with your words, can be more damaging than with your fists.

This should not be about a word, it should be about what is acceptable, we made our stance upon discrimination very clearly and every member who is on this site has agreed to those conditions to use this service.

I personaly have banned several users for dicrimination, against race, faith, sexuality etc... sometimes its a 24 / 48 hour ban sometimes its a lifetime ban.

Of course this depends on the situation, we get a lot of young people thinking its clever to call everyone gay, we may just warn or kick... if someone is going out of there way to offend someone, we may ban them for life. every circumstance is different and will be delt with accordingly.

but the fact that certain people use an offencive word in a non-offencive context makes banning someone for using that word a difficult choice, but one i would not hessitate in enforcing.

And if there is a word list then the N* word would be on it. so think carfully about the words you say... in fact the use of the N* in the nice way could be a form of racism, but not towards Afro-Carabians, as some may think that it is being used to exclude non Afro-Carabians from the conversation.

I do not say this to offend anyone, but we should consider everyones point of view, I have said before if a member of the KKK wanted to play on kai they are more than welcome, but if they bring any racism to kai in any form they can fuck off and die, We dont need to like everyone, but everyone needs to show respect for others belief's but without pushing those beliefs onto others.

This of course is all my own opinion, and is not nesserseraly the opinion of TeamXLink or any other group that I am affiliated with

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:20 pm

BS........I can read between the lines u guys(I AM THE KING OF THAT). Yall might not know me but i could care less bout some moderator rights.....Im a moderator/boss n real life! But when you have a council of "power" and all views are the same it is destined for ignorance.........open your minds!

Team XLink Moderator Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 1215

TA_Laddo @ Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:20 pm wrote:

BS........I can read between the lines u guys(I AM THE KING OF THAT). Yall might not know me but i could care less bout some moderator rights.....Im a moderator/boss n real life! But when you have a council of "power" and all views are the same it is destined for ignorance.........open your minds!

I am clearly not a master of reading between the lines Confused

Care to explain what you mean? I tend to think that the peeps at xlink who make the policies are very open minded. You are ofcourse entitled to your own opinion, but care to name an example of ignorance and/or 'tunnelview' (as opposed to open mindedness)?