Halo 2 - Trainer why bother to play at all

Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 1:18 am

i said im not gonna bet

Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:13 am

I don't think he was talking to you Shadow_Dog...

Kai Admirer Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 369

I don't think you should ever post again Shadow_Dog

Kai Admirer Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 474

the number of hackers are growing in gr2. many people are starting to say "well i dont use them unless i see other people using them, then i get even". i think no matter who is using them, it doesnt give you the right to hack. i say let that person be a loser by him/her self. seriously... hackers are also reaching clans. clans to me are supposed to set an example for the gr2 community, at least this is what we go over in n3W-BR33D practice. we talk about how to show respect for other players, (like not dumping a whole clip into a person after we kill them). we tell players "good game" after a match and aknowlege a person who had alot of kills during that game. i think some other clans out there have different perspectives and dont care or respect other (gr2)gamers. They just pull out thier hacks and shit on the world. gun hacking is getting very loose in gr2 and personally im sick of it. i cant wait for gr3 to come out, so i can have a good game(untill they hack that game too Sad

).

Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 4:07 am

so i don't really care if they play with me or not
i've been a member for a while, and i've never lost to a person using a trainer, i'm just too dang good i guess...
but seriously, like one time on ascension some guy jumped to the big white stone part on the big sniper tower by overshield, he had a sniper and unlimited ammo, and i went down and grabbed the rocket launcher, shot back up, shot one rocket aimed in his general direction, and killed him. let's face it, since they don't need to gain gameplay experience, they are and always will be n00bs, so why even bother taking them out??? whoop their as*es Twisted Evil

Kai Admirer Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 474

true. but i think i have to kick them most of the time cuz it shows what i stand for. if i let them stay then what will the other players think? thats the main reason why i kick them so i dont get a bad image and so i can keep a clean room. i want people to stay in my room , not leave cuz of hacking.

Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 10:21 am

Yeah watch out for a player named 'Gore' who was jumping 20 times his height in the air amongst other things.

Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 12:49 pm

PinkGem @ Tue May 31, 2005 10:21 am wrote:

Yeah watch out for a player named 'Gore' who was jumping 20 times his height in the air amongst other things.

I can't wait for the n00b who goes "I'm flying over your defences! I got the flag! I'm flying! Flying! Off a cliff! Uh-oh..."

Or at least the one who uses a trainer to get to 50 times the normal jump hieght!

"Look at me! Oh, you can't, I'm too high! I'm kissing the sky! I'm... falling..?"

To take a death message outta Q3A (If you don't know what that is, why the heck are you playing Halo, or any FPS for that matter?): N00b cratered.

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:45 pm

not to mention slappahoe, obviously he gets up and leaves. So I figure I'll act with shame and slap the hoe while he's away. After a good 30 melees to the back he turns around and blasts me with a shottie. Figuring I can get even, I hop in a ghost and proceed to run him down. What happens? Seems SPARTAN warriors can outrun ghosts these days...

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:28 am

Chase him off a cliff Wink

See how much his invunerabillity will help him when he's falling into the void and can't respawn...

Hehehe...

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:55 am

yeah same thing happened to me that happened to diablo i was playing on a server and got acussed of cheating and obviously not cheating but you have to have a description dont you? i am now to scared to play halo 2 on kai

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:05 pm

I was wondering, when playing last night, if it would help out new players to spot signs of using cheats, trainers, hacks and/or any other unfair mod in the games, to compile a itemized list of 'signs and symptoms' that the host isn't on the up and up. Each game seems to be a little different when it comes to the various cheats people do.

For example, here are some nerve jarring cheats I have seen (by no means a complete list)

Signs and Symptoms of an active cheat/unfair game advantage:
A) INGAME: Player jumps exceedingly high, even w/o grenade or crouch jumping.

B) INGAME: Player (or host) seems to almost never die and respawn even with three opposing players simultaneously shooting at them.

C) POSTGAME: Host is rude during postgames, saying things like 'you all suck', none of you even deserve to play', 'I own you all' (sans lighthearted tone), 'you are all f@gz', or other assorted child-like sputterings of insanity. You get the idea. This is not always true of course, but I have noticed it occurs more often than not with a host-cheater (usually this is the result of the other 11 players being upset at having a cheat for a host). **Hosting a room does not give any Kai user the right to insult or be rude to other players, even if they are noobs. Nobody has any more of a right to play than anyone else outside the terms of use for Xlink's software and service.

D) INGAME: Gamertag in-game does not show up in the Kai Chat or arenas on PC. Example: Host JoeBlow on Xbox cannot be seen on Xlink on the PC. They do this to conceal their true identities on Xlink, since it is generally understood that this is a violation and potentia for IP bans (or whatever Team Xlink decides to do).

E) INGAME: Host or player either take a long time to, or never, reload their weapons.

F): INGAME: Host or player, when using a sword, appears to fly toward you even from a considerable distance, greatly reducing your returns. While this is usually not a true 'hack', it is an exploitation of a known bug ingame, and thus, does not reflect on anyones' skill (mastering a bug in the game is like taking chess pieces away when the other player isnt looking..Does this make one a better strategist?) Usually the cheater or PseudoLeet (my term) will excel wth a few moves or weapons, but do terrible at most others.

G) INGAME: Spontanous overshield or active camoflage, even when they are nowheres near the known powerup respawn places on a given map (IE they just disappear w/i seconds of respawning).

H) INGAME: You and your teammates (if on a team) seem to go down after two cycles of a battle rifle attack, and yet some members of the opposing side are able to magically absorb incredible amounts of projectiles. This is called 'reverse handicap'. Usually the host may, if they wish, set a handicap ingame for themselves (but usually not others), since the host has the ping advantage. Reverse handicap forces opponents of a host to, instead, become handicapped.

I) This one is hard to spot sometimes. If they seem to be able to hit you from very far away (like on Coag), with a battle rifle, multiple times, from halfway across the map, then they are using a conversion hack-mod that turns the scope of the battle rifle into that of a sniper's, making them an impressive, and Leet-ish wielder of the hard to find, 'hybrid battle-rifle-10xscope-thingy'.

J) UPSTREAM THROTTLE-DOWN: This is a newer one, and not discussed much (yet), but sometimes a host may modify their router or even the PC to delay or reduce their own data upstream from Xlink's UI, thus reducing the other players' ability to maneuver and aim. Arguably difficult to detect during the game, the best indicator I can come up with on this one is, if everyone's ping is halfway decent from within Xlink (say <200 msecs), but the game plays really choppy (and the host has 39 kills to everyone elses 2 and 3 kills), then they may be trying out the upstream-throttle-down trick. There are a number of ways this can be done. There are also software driven upstream clipping progs ('limiters' for short) that accomplish the same thing.

SIgns and symptoms of a non-cheating host or player who happens to be very good at playing:

A) POSTGAME: Host does not threaten or chastize other players. Even though the host team may have kicked ass, you still seem to enjoy the postgame chat.

B) INGAME: player is able to reach seemingly impossible places, but in reality these places are reachable, only somewhat difficult to do. (Tree limb on Beaver Creek for example).

C) INGAME: Sometimes, even the best players can be snuck upon from behind. During this surprise attack scenario, they appear to take equal damage as other players (or yourself). During a frontal attack, they move very well, so you may think that you are hitting them when you are not. (Look at their shield. Usually it will briefly 'glow' indicating a hit). I have a personal guideline that, 'If the host ain't glowin', then Im getting goin' (to another arena that is.) since this is a very good indicator of a host who is cheating.

D) Sometimes, a host may have a cheat or severely modded map, but they announce it within the arena to 'just have some fun' (example: a crazy map where you can generate warthogs with your pistol). Sometimes I end up laughing so hard at some of these 'hey-look-at-this -mod-I-did' maps that I have to stop for a few minutes. These 'publically announced' maps are often entertaining and kewl (although one's skillz are none the better afterward), but not really cheating, as it were.

There are of course many more varaints of the above. If anyone wants to take the time to put together a comprehensive list of the known cheats (with their signs and symtpoms), I would be more than happy to convert the list to HTML and post it on one of my servers as a viewable webpage.

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:09 pm

^^^^
wicked post, I didn't know of some of those other mods like the reverse handicapping and shit. Anyway I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm good I don't need to cheat if people want to cheat thats fine they must have some sort of issue (most likly they suck) it doesn't make me any less of a good player Wink

I still hate being acused of cheating Evil or Very Mad

I think threads about cheating kind of make that worse also because people come on and get owned (even though the person doing the owning isn't cheating) and then the winner (who has spent time mastering the game and gaining skills) gets flamed for cheating Evil or Very Mad

pisses me off more then the cheaters themselves Crying or Very sad

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:39 am

Yes, this is precisely the reason why I see a potential need for a signs and symptoms list: To assist newbies, average players (like myself) and even long-time players to differentiate between cheats versus players who are just 'damn good'.

Basically I have discovered that, with a little logic and analysis, that this can be done with a measured degree of success.

If you saw that video that I made for a kid who works with my g/f (from one single video tape of continous play), you can see an example of such a player. This kid happens to be well mannered, and doesnt slam the sh@t out of a room of noobs for his own ego benefit.
(Heres that video again)
http://crystalstar.freeservers.com/archives/KSI_Chocolate_Halo2_Video_v2_Needs_Div-X_5pt21_codec.avi

So please, if you run hackmods, cheats, advantage based patches in Xlink
A) Please announce to the room participants that your arena is modded (not just your one friend sitting there in your living room).
B) Try not to be too much of an @rsehole to other players.
C) People are trying to have fun here. The people who brought you Xlink did not work their asses off just to feed your ego. If you want to prove yourself in the world, then get a job, and pay things like rent and electric. After doing this, you may find that your perspective of online gaming is to forget about those bills and the tough job for a few hours, instead of MP being your 'job'. Personally, until someone else starts paying my bills, I am going to look at MP gaming in no other way: My feet are killing me after work, and Im dog-tired, my eyes are bloodshot but Im still gonna have some fun on Xlink, even if I get wiped by a very good player. Sorry: We, the other inhabitants of Earth, are not here to serve you...We cant...We are simply too tired.

Also, if you are a very good player who is not cheating:

A) Please do not be rude and try to at least attempt to make it fun for the rest of us. Most arenas that are not pre-arranged have a diverse skill-mix of players. If you are really good, then we will all see that and be impressed. No need to rub it in. (If everyone were super skilled at MP it would certainly have little mass appeal)

B) Likewise, if everyone sucked badly, then MP gaming would be little more than a spray-fest, and quite boring. It is this wide range of skill-mix that makes Xlink so much fun IMHO. We do need Leet players to make it fun and challenging. Remember that is what this is all about: Nobody is trying out for the Olympics here (in public arenas); You are not applying for a second mortgage; Simon Cowell is not observing your play to see if youre the next Halo2 Idol. Fun, people. That's what it's ll about. Have fun or please go somewhere else.

C) Sometimes people just like to goof around for the hell of it. My g/F for example, the other night, wanted to play, even though she doesnt even know how to maneuver the thumbsticks. OK, so maybe she was shooting at the sky, hoping that 'someone would come by' (maybe jump over her?). Granted if this were a 'tryout arena' then others certainly have a right to get pissed (that is not the place to goof off), but she wasnt.
Let's try and remember that the real world is tough enough out there. Let's have some fun and try not to take ourselves too seriously.

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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:58 am

hey whats up
im a normal kai user im happy that i bumped into this thread. I was reading about the cheating going on and i read a specific post that said if you know their XTAG report them. I recently found a cheater(trainer user) in my privet arena. Yes i did beat his ass very bad i got a Running Riot before he came out with his trainer, He was spraying me with his automatic Battle Riffle and I got his XTAG i know that this might not be the right place to post this but I dont have time to search i have to go to an important meeting anyone that sees this guy whatch out. I hope the admins to something about this guy. It pisses me off when people have to ruin the fun for the other player, didnt effect me in anyway.
~BIGmike21~

XTAG: jayhv87

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:20 am

Racer823 @ Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:05 pm wrote:

F): INGAME: Host or player, when using a sword, appears to fly toward you even from a considerable distance, greatly reducing your returns. While this is usually not a true 'hack', it is an exploitation of a known bug ingame, and thus, does not reflect on anyones' skill (mastering a bug in the game is like taking chess pieces away when the other player isnt looking..Does this make one a better strategist?) Usually the cheater or PseudoLeet (my term) will excel wth a few moves or weapons, but do terrible at most others.

It's not a cheat if everyone in the game can do it. A cheat is used to get an unfair advantage. That's not grounds to accuse someone of cheating.

However: If the host (The person operating the game) says you shouldn't, don't. If the host says you can, feel free. If you know how to do it it can make a fun game. If you don't, ask someone to show you.

Also: It's perfectly O.K. not to excell with all weapons. I mean, come on, some people are good with the sniper rifle, but the suck with the SMGs (A.K.A. Bullet Hoses). It just depends on the player. It's not 'PseudoLeet' if your 'Leet' with the battlerifle or sword (Come on, WHY do people stay still long enough for a lock in the middle of a frag-fest? Arming the bomb? Run around in circles!) but you can't snipe people and can't use a vehicle turrent.

Just for the n00bs: If the player has the bomb, flag, etc. And they get active camo, that's probably the gametype, not a trainer.

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:28 am

i was hosting a game last night when someone had an automatic sniper and it just ruins the game, i felt sorry for everyone else so i shut down the server

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:33 pm

Yeah netdroid I hestitated a little on the sword trick thing but decided to post it anyways for two reasons: (1) players opinions are divided on this issue and (2) it has been argued that explotation of non-programmed ingame bugs work better (or more often) for the host, thus the possibilty of advantage beyond skill (which is the core thematic of my above babbling)
.
Seriously though, there isnt any point in arguing the semantics. Some players feel that this 'bug' was never meant to be used in the game, by the creators of the game itself. Others feel that if anyone can do it, it should be OK.

But you are right. The only real solution is to let the host decide.

The weapon issue is the very reason why I gave the list as a summary 'signs and symtpoms': In other words, no one symptom can stand alone as 'oh-my-gosh-100%-proof' of a hack...No more than chest pain is a 100% definitive symptom of a myocardial infarction. If you said to your doctor, 'Doc, I have chest pain', and without any further questioning, testing or analysis they quickly rubberstamp you with 'a rule in myocardial infarction.'
To do so in the medical world is, at best, blatant inane quackery.

I believe I shuld have been more verbose in definition, and perhaps said that a (possible) symptom is a player who excels at one specific weapon that has been modded or hybridized to their advantage only.

Differential diagnosis is the only answer: To be too quick to cry 'cheater!' casues undue problems. Conversely, to be completely ignorant of hackmods and trainers may not be a good thing either.

I believe in summary, what I should of added in my above post is, 'if someone is taking away from any other players enjoyment of the game by use of a hackmod, patch or other forms of profile/arena modding, then it really isn't right.'

If youre good, youre good. End of story. Talented players should be able to function just fine within the confines of any given game's original programming, rules, and physical limits set within the game program itself.

As my one pal would say, who is light years ahead of me in Halo2 play, 'A true L33T does not hinge on anything but their own skill.'

And I couldnt agree with him more.

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:45 pm

Racer823 @ Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:33 pm wrote:

'A true L33T does not hinge on anything but their own skill.'

again last night this guy claimed I was cheating because there was lag and then I scored by capturing his flag??? I wasn't even the host ... hell I don't even know who the host was Evil or Very Mad

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:53 am

IMO: If someone calls you a cheater repetitivly when your not, you should be able to blacklist them just as if they were a cheater.