Proposed new signup procedure

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:48 pm

Its a decent idea. If it will change anything I do not know.

I tend not to play much Kai these days, a few reasons such as certain technical hassles are some of the reason but the main one is the tedium of Halo 2.

Sure its a good game, but its obvious over 90% of users simply wish to play this.

I like the odd game, but I dont like it all of the time. And finding users in the other arenas is becoming impossible. Its even driven me to think about getting Live! Shocked

The new system will not stop Halo 2 squatting but it could block a lot of wankers, so go for it! Razz

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:50 pm

another question Embarassed

is it possible to ban (timed ban) other people which i didnt invite??

(people who joined after me)

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:53 pm

short and sweet as i leave work.

I dont mind the idea of invites, however i feel i will be one of the unfortunate people to get an invite from a higher up. I do use kai regularly however i spend most of my time in messager mode playing with close friends - just to avoid running into cheaters and annoyences. When i do play in arenas its normally in games like GR2 as i like to avoid playing in Halo 2 games where problems do arise.

I can understand trying to remove all the user base that causes problems, however even with an invite system it still will be hard to weed certain people out.

Ill try and come up with my adapted solution thinking on the train ride home from work

Team XLink Administrator Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 3354

Wow. I have been here a long time and never thought I would see the day for something like this. I think it’s a great idea but I don't know if I like being the one responsible for someone else’s actions. Say I invite Bob if I get an invite Very Happy

and bob plays for 4 months with no problems. But today for whatever reason he gets banned by someone for whatever reason, I am responsible? If that were the case, no one would ever make it in as a recruit of mine just for the fact that I don't go to nude clubs because I know what I will do when I get there.

I love the idea, but ban the idiot that did the crime, not the idiot that took the chance. Maybe a system where after the third fucktard I get punished, but damn don't ban me man Very Happy

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:13 pm

So i have logged on for the first time to put my two cents in. I am a fair and just occasional player who enoys using the service to play some fun harmless halo 2. the problem i see with this new system is yo are punishing a large amount of people for nothing. I do not see any reasonable way that i or my friends would get an invite at any point. I dont hang out in chat rooms or forums. I dont cheat, but im not into playing it enough to have made internet friends. Not into it enough(or good enough) to get into clans. So i will be punished for crimes i never commited. I suppose i can go over to XBC, there seems to be a lot of negative feelings towards them here, probably just a rivalry thing, i dont know.

I think what you need to do is come up with a system where people, while playing, can vote that they believe someone is a cheater/racist/whatever, and if they get a majority in the room, they get kicked out. this disallows abuse of power, byu allowing an immediate majority to fix the problem. Then, in addiditon, repeat offenders could be weeded out easily enough. This is a fairer solution in my opinion, as it will allow me, the casual gamer, to use the system.

i have spent many hours playing splinter cell on Kai, and hope i will be aable to continue to use the fine service provided.

Joined: 30 Jul 2006 Posts: 0

OK.. a few to reply to here - bear with me Very Happy

mkjones - I hear exactly what ure saying mate. I only use Kai for GR2 now - and I only play with XC and a few other guys who I consider friends. Why? Because there isnt anybody in the arenas I want (crimson, topspin, pgr2) etc. What we're doing here may shrink the userbase - but it will also bring in a lot of people who dont touch tunnels because they're "full of little 14 yrs old kids who only play h2" - bear with us for more info about evo8 - you will enjoy some of the stuff we have in the pipe to get people playing other games.

r4j0r - Yes, it is possible for you to do that. But, they must be a.) lower in the tree than you (5th gen, 6th gen, 40th gen etc.) and they must have joined after you. There may well be other restrictions - like you cant ban nobody unless uve been clean for the last 3 months - whatever- aint decided that yet - that's for you guys to work out.

dbldown - OK, this is good. First up - this will not affect messenger mode at all - anyone can use that, because it's intrinsically user controlled - at the lowest level. You can just sign up to kai, download and use messenger mode - I should have made that clear in the news, but didnt. I look forward to any comments you have about it in terms of arena though..

Funk - OK before i do this one, everyone should know that I deliberately sprung this on everyone out of the blue - its not been discussed in admin forum, or mod forum - or even in person. I want everyone to get it all at once, and I want to see what peoples reactions are to it cold. As for the concern about inviting people, well, we will need to work out a sensible way. I mean, maybe you get 3 strikes, and after that you get 25% of the ban of your next recruit who fucks up - I dunno - but remember that you always have the option not to recruit anyone - and you will never get more than like a 12 hour ban for the actions of someone you recruited. You're also not responsible *at all* for people *they* recruit.

TD

Joined: 30 Jul 2006 Posts: 0

bongloder: ok man - you're exactly the kind of case we still need to deal with - ie - a good guy, who doesnt know anyone to invite him, because he uses the service differently.

This will be the biggest stumbling block with this proposed solution - and if it turns out we cannot think of a sensible way to deal with it, this idea wont happen - but I still want this stuff considered out in the open, so we can try to find an acceptable way round it.

TD

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:36 pm

As someone who plays only occasionally, but frequents the forums, how would I go about getting nominated? Barely anyone in game will know me, I don't have a headset, and I don't always live long enough to make a good impression! I think the hierarchy idea is sound, but as kylerules pointed out, the hardest part will be allowing new 'good' users in while keeping the arseholes out!

Will sponsors be responsible for receiving and processing complaints about their sponsees?

As for reducing the user base, I don't see it as a problem. dfunked posted those stats about users who had logged in and played over the last hour/day/week/month etc, and it was nowhere near the 200k+ that have registered.

Team XLink Administrator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1826

TheDaddy @ Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:48 pm wrote:

OK TwoCents,

Well I hope not - see, the pyrmaid will fix *itself* - all done on the server. The mods life should get a lot easier - and hopefully involve more playing of games.

I wonder, as a mod, how would you react to this new scheme? Would you rather be weeding out assholes to ban, or would the mods prefer to be selecting *good* people from a pool of unattached users who have lost their sponsor / dont have one?

TD

Tough one, would i like to ban someone and see others being happy that this person got banned? Or would i prefer to chat with dozens of people who got banned for no reason because someone higher up in the hierarchy got a perm ban?

I understand what you're trying to do TD, but we should really understand what the consequences are. (That's why you did start this discussion).

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:38 pm

This sounds like a well thought out system good job TD etc Laughing

but i dont quite understand the sponsering part, if your sponser gets in trouble so do you :s that seems quite unfiar because the sponsered person hasnt done anything wrong and they have to find a new sponser fast otherwise they lose there place

and i think its a bad idea to give people that are high (and not mods/admins) banning rights as they could be people that dont like getting beating etc and then people would be unfairly banned of of kai

if you could clear this up i would be grateful

Anima1

Kai Enthusiast Joined: 07 Jun 2004 Posts: 285

I've not played online for quite a while (almost sold my XBox a while ago.. I've spent more time learning to program and working on college stuff, not had time for games Sad

) so I'm also quite 'worried' (for want of a better word) about getting someone to invite me..
But I think the idea is great, it's gives users a sense of responsibility over the Kai community and gives us the opportinity to be proud of the community which we build around us Smile

Great ideas Team XLink, looking forward to seeing it in action Smile

Anima1 @ Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:38 pm wrote:

but i dont quite understand the sponsering part, if your sponser gets in trouble so do you :s that seems quite unfiar because the sponsered person hasnt done anything wrong and they have to find a new sponser fast otherwise they lose there place

The idea is not to invite anyone who don't trust 100% to be a good addition to the Kai commmunity - I feel the punishment is more of a deterrant to that end. I know I'd not invite anyone I didn't trust 100% Smile

Kai Admirer Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 369

i think that the plan as it is has too many ways to manipulate it into affecting those you may have an unjust reason to dislike. but things can be ironed out in the next few months.

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:45 pm

I bielieve is a good idea but like bongloder said. I only play kai with 4 to 5 close friends (and they dont play with others much) this would sucks for us not knowing anyone to invite us to the new system.

The idea of a 3 strikes mixed in with the hirearchy(sp) is a good one. I only bought halo 2 a few months afte it came outand have played here on kai only 5 times or so. The problem racism and cheating, never played it again.
In my opinion this would really make the userbase one of ppl that dont need hack or mods to win in a game.

lets see what the futue will bring and well let the cheating,14y/o crybabies, racist wankers go to XBC!

Team XLink Administrator Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 3354

I just don't know what I think about this yet. I can see by reading that you really want a clean and fun community for everyone. And I respect that 100%. I too would love to have this, but I would feel that we would be back to the user base of Beta Kai. Although we had loads of fun playing XR every day. It really got fun when some new meat came to play.

Why not have two sections of Kai? One where you can go for Clean fun and gaming, and another balls to the walls no holds barred fun. Call it adults only and put a censorship notice on it. I know where I would be playing.

Now discrimination should never be tolerated, that I agree with. But if I am playing Halo 2 and someone doesn't cuss me out. I am not playing that well. I want to beat a be-ah-tch down and then tell him his momma wares combat boots to bed. But I agree I don’t want my 12 year old playing in that same environment so she would go to the kiddies clean room.

As for access, do it the same way as it is now. Make it so you can only get 1 account per e-mail/IP/MAC w/e. And add a marshal system where there are 4 levels of staff. Admin as 1, Mod as 2, Marshals as 3, and users as 4. Anyone one can ban the one below for being out of place. Marshals can only be granted by sponsorship and if that marshal falls out of line then he/she is gone and the one that sponsored him/her cannot sponsor anyone else ever.

I feel we have such a problem because we have more forum moderators than we have application moderators. But we have more users on the app then we do on the forum. Marshals would be the ones that uses the system and know the community.

IMO as always.

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:46 pm

thanks for clearing it up dude

i understand completely

Team XLink Moderator Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 1357

How about setting it up so when you play on kai, you get a rating like someone else had said. However, your rating is brought up by amount of time played as well as amount of times you have been booted or banned from rooms. Since inactive members get sent back to messenger mode, you don't have to worry as much about people just idling in arenas to get the rating up. Then have it set so people can set limits to the ratings of people in their rooms, as well as people that are on their buddy lists (so you dont have to worry about a buddy of yours not having a high enough rating to join your arena)

People with lower ratings could host and play in each games public arena, and gradually up their ratings by playing often to get into private arenas that have been set to allow users of higher ratings.

Now you have places for people that play all the time, and places that people who play sometimes can go to as well. Then people who do play all the time can set a lower rating to their arenans (which leaves access to newer users) and have the control to boot/ban people who enter and screw around.

Also, I used to go into msn chatrooms years ago and they had a feature that when you create chatrooms, you would have your mod powers, and you could give someone else in the rooms mod status as well, and those people could give other people mod status. That would be a great feature in general for Evo8. Especially with those who leave up dedicated servers. People that host can give the mod powers to someone else, and whenever that person leaves they can hand it off to someone else. But no one has the power to remove the mod powers of the host, and maybe not letting mods take away each other's powers would be good too.

Just a couple thoughts.

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:47 pm

Ok I like the Ideas put forth here but heres something that Is a major concern to me... I am a good honest user... I rarely find time to play online... however whn I get in the mood to lets say Race against someone human I would like to be able to have that Option... I would not like to go thru some sort of Hoopla just to be able to do that... Now its great and all your ways of doing this but no one else that I know plays online nor will they ever... So the chances of me getting to play on Kai are very nil... Its not worth it to me to try and beg someone to sponsor me.. I would rather not play... I see this helping the Community but I also see it hurting it as well As there are probably many more others like me out there..

James

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:57 pm

Just an idea that i haven't quite thought through fully:

how about you add a time limit to the time that you are a sponsor? So that if A sponsors B then A is responsible for B for x days. After x days, A can then sponsor someone else and B can sponsor someone after a bit longer. This would mean that you are not permanantly responsible for some one else.

If A or B f*&^% up within the first x days then both get banned.... ?

Kai Enthusiast Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 200

well I don't really play that much on kai as I don't have many system link games just 2 that no one plays....

but whenever a new game is released with system link support I give it a try on kai but after some time others get tried of it as it dosn't have this or that and they just go back to playing Gaylo 2

but seeing as it will be going to a user tree I don't think I will be able to get signed up on here when it comes around but I do think this is a good idea to keep all the trouble makers at bay..

as for me I just want play something other then HALO 2 over kai

it makes me thing if I should pay that 50 year just to play the games i want to online.....

Kai Beginner Joined: 31 Oct 2004 Posts: 1 Location: Panama

bongloder @ Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:13 pm wrote:

So i have logged on for the first time to put my two cents in. I am a fair and just occasional player who enoys using the service to play some fun harmless halo 2. the problem i see with this new system is yo are punishing a large amount of people for nothing. I do not see any reasonable way that i or my friends would get an invite at any point. I dont hang out in chat rooms or forums. I dont cheat, but im not into playing it enough to have made internet friends. Not into it enough(or good enough) to get into clans. So i will be punished for crimes i never commited. I suppose i can go over to XBC, there seems to be a lot of negative feelings towards them here, probably just a rivalry thing, i dont know.

I think what you need to do is come up with a system where people, while playing, can vote that they believe someone is a cheater/racist/whatever, and if they get a majority in the room, they get kicked out. this disallows abuse of power, byu allowing an immediate majority to fix the problem. Then, in addiditon, repeat offenders could be weeded out easily enough. This is a fairer solution in my opinion, as it will allow me, the casual gamer, to use the system.

i have spent many hours playing splinter cell on Kai, and hope i will be aable to continue to use the fine service provided.

Same case here but i speak spanish thats why i dont chat a lot in kai. i have the xbox since 2002 and i like to play in kai. know i am in a new clan conformed by people of my country but they dont chat and probably wont get invited.