Proposed new signup procedure

Kai Beginner Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Posts: 54

jhoff81 @ Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:20 pm wrote:

I'm still not sure I agree with this policy (how the most recent revisions are sounding) either. For one, I'm one of those users who doesn't play often enough to get a good reputation or anything like that, but I don't cheat. I guess my problem with the most recent policy I saw with this regard would depend on how exactly the services were limited for those who were not full members because they didn't get invited.

Secondly, this also puts members who don't use the official user interface at a disadvantage. I use XBMC as an interface, and was thinking about getting a router that supported running Kai through its firmware so that I could just connect using that and not use a PC at all. However, I don't have a keyboard with the correct adaptor for my Xbox, and I don't have the Xbox Live headset. Therefore, I have no method of communicating with others in the arena I join. I don't join arenas to socialize or prove that I am worthy of other people trust me or not, but I do join only to play games, and frankly don't pay much attention to conversation going on in arenas, since I can't reply anyway.

Finally, this seems to me like it would still put games other than Halo 2 at a huge disadvantage (although the most recently suggested method of having a user who did not need an invite would alleviate this slightly). For example though, I really like the multiplayer of Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. I have a few friends who have Xboxs, but none of them really like the game enough to buy it, and there is no split-screen multiplayer option (well there is for the coop mode, but I'm talking more about versus mode). Since I don't have Xbox Live, the only way I can play multiplayer is to sign in on Kai. I think the most users I've ever seen is probably 15, and I'm sure quite a few other games have even less users on. Now, you can say that you'd' rather have quality over quantity in the players who are in the arena, but quality doesn't matter if theres already the maximum number of players (for Chaos Theory: 4) per game, and any type of method that could possibly limit the number of users for less popular games seems like a bad idea to me (although like I said before, the new method most recently suggested seems to help that aspect).

Very good points as well. I've been playing around with trying to get a WRT54G to work running kaiStation and wonder how Evo8 will affect that (especially since I'm having enough trouble as is trying to use my PS2 for Armored Core Nexus). I'm sure changes will need to be made for other such interfaces to work with Evo8, and wonder just what those will be. As long as those in the "Wasteland" still can create private arenas and operate similar to Evo7, things might be okay. However, I too wish to know just how restricted non-sponsored/new users are.

Kai Beginner Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 7 Location: Canada

Quote:

This typifies the problem, imo. See, that's what someone would think if they *intended to come here to cheat / be an ass*. Now, someone who was a decent guy would probably be thinking more along the lines of "Wow - somewhere with 1000 people who *arent* assholes! Sign me up!"

TD

I respect the idea, but the oh so perfect community of people you think you'll have isn't realistic and will not happen. Im sure the first 100-200 people will have only a few cheats. But with 200 people and them inviting others it will be no different than what it is today.

When people are introduced to free online gaming they're usually given two options, xlink kai (which ive chosen) and xbconnect. Now obviously those people are gonna ask around and xbconnect will always win.

All they have to say is

- You want to go to a place with so little people to play with, good luck finding a game

- You can connect on xbconnect right away, or go to xlink kai and try begging for someone to find you decent

- Just to let you know every member there can ban you. You really think even as decent as you are not one person will ban you.

All these arguement with embarass xlink and the only defense you guys will have is "We have no/less cheaters"

xbconnect will say they have little cheaters too, then what do you do? Even after hearing this im planning to move to xbconnect and be an active member there. The last thing i need is to find some decent person to play against and then they get disconnected because some prick was jealous and banned them.

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:33 pm

how many times do we have to repeat this!

WE DONT CARE WHO GOES TO XBC! If you dont like it here then play there, those who agree with us will continue to play here and because they have the same beliefs we do then it will get rid of cheaters!

Kai Beginner Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Posts: 54

You say that like it's an option for everyone. There are some of us out there who don't have Xboxes or only play niche games (or BOTH) We are a minority, but we are out there and don't want to lose Xlink Kai because it is the best and always has been. All we need is for Xlink Kai to stay the same, but since that's not an option, all we can do is voice out our concerns and hope for the best. Thank you.

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:26 pm

well if there isnt anywhere else for you guys to go (if I am getting the arguement right and please correct me if I am not) then no one will go anywhere. If they like to play so much then they will do whats needed and for the most part wont be majorly affected by things like the banning system and such.

Kai Beginner Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Posts: 54

Yes, you got it right. There may be alternatives out there, but they're nothing like Xlink Kai (the AC community went through a few tunneling programs before they found Kai). That's why we're hoping the changes won't take away too much from those users in the "Wastelands" or from the new and unsponsored users because that's most likely where we'll have to reside. I'm not expecting much chance of any of us getting invited to be a full member. When small groups stick to themselves, they often get overlooked. The revisions to the plan are sounding better all the time, but there are still concerns that have not been addressed like jhoff81, joker, myself and others have stated. The greatest concern is that those who stand to lose the most from this kind of restrictive change, are not the lamers you're trying to keep out, but the honest casual gamers that this was supposedly created for. We love Kai and don't want to lose those privileges that we have had thus far. Therefore I will continue to voice those concerns until they are put to rest. Thank you.

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:00 pm

Well I dont want small communities to fall through the cracks either however, since the invite problem was taken care of I dont see your community comming to an end anytime soon. All you have to do is not get banned and you will be fine. You can also invite people from a lower tree to join you so if they get banned then it wont hurt you. And if it does need an invite to get into better things then I will invite you. Hope that helps!

Kai Beginner Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Posts: 54

Thanks. That does help. I think I'll also have invite joker since he seems to be in a similar boat as well. That is to say as a worst-case-scenario. But I did appreciate the offer, thank you.

Kai Lover Joined: 27 Feb 2005 Posts: 615

RancidClone @ Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:19 pm wrote:

I respect the idea, but the oh so perfect community of people you think you'll have isn't realistic and will not happen. Im sure the first 100-200 people will have only a few cheats. But with 200 people and them inviting others it will be no different than what it is today.

<snip>

All I have to say here is: Wow... RancidClone trying to tell TheDaddy that people will ban him. Funny stuff. Wink

Now onto a more serious part of my response. Smile

RancidClone, you seem to be ignoring Taz's post which is an updated version of the proposal. They are proposing a change where there will be an invite system to access essentially a private set of arenas that will not be accessible by those who aren't invited. There is nothing stopping you from jumping on and playing, although if you want access to the part of the network where the usual garbage doesn't occur, you need to get invited into it.

Right now, I only have two concerns, which it appears that the team are thinking about, but haven't come up with an idea they would like to make public yet (and I am for being patient and letting them hash it out, they aren't gonna botch this up by being rash).

The first concern is getting the smaller groups involved in the private community. This can be handled by simply inviting key members of multiple gaming groups who are responsible and will invite others they can trust in their community, who will invite more, etc. It isn't an issue of code, which means that it can be rectified at any point, rather than only at this point in time. Smile

The second one is how to allow self-moderation of users. This is something that does need to be addressed before-hand, although it appears they are still working on it.

Have patience... it isn't happening until Evo VIII.

Nintendo Specialist Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 1889

I think that the main problem isnt cheaters/mods themselves. One slight problem is having the cheaters/mods play in the normal arenas where players play legit (ie cheaters/mods arent hosting/playing their cheat/modded game in the mods arena of that game.) I dont know much about modded xboxs (sense i dont have one) but if there was a way to "switch off" the modd chip in your xbox then kai8 could be made to detect whether your xbox is modded or not (sort of like what Live does when chiped xboxs login to live). If this were possible when your modd switch is "on" then you only have access to the mod arenas of that game. and when you switch it off you can play anywhere. but this might be too much trouble and i dont think modded xboxs have switches. Though i have heard of some. And players will complain about this.

The main problem is filtering out the racists, jackasses, etc...

And Kai has more than 200,000 users. I dont know what TD is planning but im hoping that the "ban people under you" wont be implemented. Its giving too much power to the masses.
I bet 45%-50% of players are the players who are legit players who play by the rules. The rest are people who dont care about kai or other kai users.
So if 45%-50% users are filtered out in the restrucure that would leave roughly about 90,000-100,000 legit players who play by the rules. Devide by evenly by 4 (each console supported) that leaves 25000 users per console. And i know there arent 25000 reg users who play gamecube. The majority are on xbox playing halo2. so for u halo2 nuts ( me included Razz

) that is alot more than 25000 to play against.
So giving 1 person to ban 99,969 people is too powerful for the average user. (if the max users was 200,000 and 100,000 people are filtered out and i excluded 30 admins/mods).

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:27 am

Lowbrassman04 @ Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:45 pm wrote:

I dont know much about modded xboxs (sense i dont have one) but if there was a way to "switch off" the modd chip in your xbox then kai8 could be made to detect whether your xbox is modded or not (sort of like what Live does when chiped xboxs login to live). If this were possible when your modd switch is "on" then you only have access to the mod arenas of that game. and when you switch it off you can play anywhere.

There are many users that have modded xboxes and do not cheat. Kai is a place where these users can play online without having to pay for Live, which a lot of modded users do. So this idea, I don't think will fly.

Kai Enthusiast Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 200

yea same for me my xbox is modded and I never have cheated in a game on here

I think most of us should just keep are questions to a min as we wait till the final processes is posted as news...

as most of the ideas in this topic are pretty soild

Kai Beginner Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 17

Utopia: An ideally perfect place, especially in its social, political, and moral aspects.

It seems like The Daddy is working towards his very own utopia..

and why not.. We the people of the Kai Community are from all around the world.. We do not need Hate, Violence and Greed! and Yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion. .

What we need is Peace! 99% of the peeps I have met on Kai are "Positve People"; Not counting the arses in the halo2 arena, and they just want to have "Good Clean Fun" (not the arses)

I think these Ideals are deffinately A Huge step in the right direction..

This is a way to weed out the "SCUM" and keep kai a beautiful place for us and our children... and who knows , maybe our childrens' children!

"Keeep on Keepin on" and "Do what you gotta Do"
Finally .... "If you build it they will come"

Kai Beginner Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 71

I can see that what you are doing is for the best interests of the kai users and i agree with your concepts as a whole. . . but as with a lot of other people i can only play occasionally, (as it's impossible to get on the bleeding PC, as little brother is on it constantly) so this would be a problem for me, due to the fact of not knowing many, if any people.

About what to do i agree with SS-Funk. . .

SS-Funk @ Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:45 pm wrote:

Why not have two sections of Kai? One where you can go for Clean fun and gaming, and another balls to the walls no holds barred fun. Call it adults only and put a censorship notice on it. . .

When people register with kai you will have their date of birth, so you can have rooms split into age groups, you will be able to sort out (i presume) who can go where.

This for example, could only apply to rooms that have headset capability, so a minimum age for example . . . but that could cause problems. . .say an older man in the 12 - 15 age group room???

As Funk said. . .

SS-Funk @ Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:45 pm wrote:

. . . I don’t want my 12 year old playing in that same environment so she would go to the kiddies clean room.

I wouldn't want any youngster in a room where things being said could cause them some form of damage (damage isn't the right word, but you know what i mean, hopefully Wink

)

For games that don't have head set capability, it can be an open room for people of all ages . . . there must ge a few rooms in every game like this as people just wanna play against better and older people. Whatever is written, like you said, would be saved so you can then weed out the bad seeds and give them what they deserve.

A rating system seems like a good idea, there have been several versions shouted out in the forums. . . but the one i like is where you status and powers rises the longer and more respected you are as a player and a aperson. So for newbies into the company (i apologise for the army anaolgies, it's the only way i can describe it), they will have virtually no rights apart from being in there. . .then the higher up the ladder you go. . . the more rights and responsibilities you would recieve. . . similar to an army regiment.

Thank for listening

Taff

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:29 pm

urine_my_way @ Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:32 pm wrote:

Although I do think there needs to be something done to limit/stop cheaters and racists from messing with our fun while playing, and I don't have the answer to this problem, I think this is going a little too far. I do think there would be less racists and cheaters, but a whole different group of problems seem to be likely.

Lets say you sponsor someone you've played with or know. You and this person get in an argument, he wants you to pay, he gets a lifetime ban, this makes you look bad and you may get a) your username banned, b)banned from Kai for a short time, and/or c) etc.

Since I don't play Halo2, from what I hear, ppl host in the main lobby, (not sure why they don't just setup a room, that's a different discussion). I would like to see certain members, who have shown their dedication to keeping the gaming to just gaming, other than admins and mods, to have special powers like being able to kick people in someone elses room if they have it set to dedicated, or if they are away from their computer. These special users would then go to a special forum on Kai when they ban /kick someone and have to justify their reasons to stop people from abusing their powers.

Those are just some of my beliefs on this subject.

some ppl (not me though) host in the main lobby because that the headsets works on both teams, which they dont in Europe/America/asia/oceania . it also works in XCT/Xtourneys/Clan match sections..

a little error to correct maybe?
i wouldnt be mad if you didnt correct it anyways Very Happy

after all Xlink is for playing not for talking, even if headset has a big role in tactics, but it works in Clan Arenas, WPH.net arena, Xtourenys arena and so on. where all "official/important" matches is.

Kai Regular Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 81

the outline taz laid out seems particulary good, but would the different levels of membership be known by everyone? maybe with the use of an avatar or something?

if the levels of membership were known (which i think it would have to be in order to ever get an invite—esp. if you don’t have a mic), then i think it would fall back into the problem people were talking about earlier. the fact that the groups would start playing with only members in their group (Full members only playing with Full members). i would think that it could possibly turn into a huge fest of “hey look at me! i’m worthy of an invite!”. not to mention the fact that it might be hard enough to get the Full members to play in the wastelands of the ‘Standards’ to ever hear their cries for acceptance.

don’t get me wrong, i like this idea, i just think some way of moving to a Full member should not require:

A. most of the admin/mod/full members involved in standard ‘tryouts’ (their time should be free to focus on other things)

B. constant harassment from standards harassing the higher levels for invites

Kai Regular Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 81

and yes before someone slams me for not reading all 19 pages. i have.

it just seemed to me that in TD's plan or taz's plan, for any movement to a higher group/different part of the tree/different level of KAI service, you'd need to know your standing and others' standing as well. i certainly don't want to be stuck at the beginner level of service when the emerald city is....just....out....of....reach

that's just my thoughts. i look forward to seeing the latest plan in the news.

Kai Beginner Joined: 24 Jan 2005 Posts: 38

In theory this sounds like a good idea. But in practice I think this won't work. It lets the inmates run the asylum. God forbid you get on the wrong side of a clan and their members take turns giving you the boot. I see a lot of abuse with this kind of system.

What you need to do is give a bunch of people moderator status. People that you can trust and that are on kai and playing a lot. I have never seen a kia moderator ever in one of my games. And I have only seen one moderator chatting on kai in the 6+ months I have been using it. A stronger presence of moderators will keep the loonies in check.

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:17 pm

Dont know if this has been asked but what happens if someone goes ban crazy. Will there be a way to see how many people someone has banned. Or will there be a limit on the number of people one can ban in a period of time?

Kai Regular Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 81

as long as the admins/moderators are the only ones with power to ban/demote users this should work well.

and kai MIGHT think of limiting users ban requests maybe on a monthly basis. that way a user will only want to use their ban requests for users they have a VERY strong opinion about. not the casual gamer wanting to ban a newb for joining their game one night---this might also throw up red flags to the admins if on one night 10 users decide to use their monthly ban request on a single user.