Why does Halo lag on Kai but not XBC???

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 4:43 pm

Ok, I have been playing Halo for quite a while now and though I am not very could at it, the lag sure dont help matters either.

I have been given a lot of explanations as to why Halo lags, firewall running, joining a game that is further away, high bandwith, Halo wasn't meant for online gaming etc. and the list goes on and on as to why Halo lags.

Please don't get me wrong as I think Kai is a great thing but if some or all of these instances are true then Why does Kai lag most of the time but I can join XBC and join any game and I dont lag at all?? Not to mention that my pings are lower and more stable.

Its just a question I have had going through my mind for a long time now even since RC2.

Hopefully the new updates will fix this.

Thanks,

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 5:11 pm

They are still working out the bugs ... please be patient.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 5:41 pm

http://www.teamxlink.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3095#3095

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 6:04 pm

Yeah I know they are still working out the bugs and that is understandable as I know that a new software program can be a real b**ch when trying to get it working correctly.

Jmel, I went to that forum and have read it but that still didn't answer the main question. If that was the case then XBC should lag for me too and it doesn't.

But thanks for your guys input anyway.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 6:19 pm

Apache_1 wrote:

Yeah I know they are still working out the bugs and that is understandable as I know that a new software program can be a real b**ch when trying to get it working correctly.

Jmel, I went to that forum and have read it but that still didn't answer the main question. If that was the case then XBC should lag for me too and it doesn't.

But thanks for your guys input anyway.

the point was to read my final post.

there are actual known issues we are working on.

so what does this mean for you?

it means we know exactly what the problems are, and that its totally fixable. it means that its going to a be a very short while until everything is 100%, and that with a bit of patience, everything will work out.

as a user, you have to just trust me, because myself, as a tester, i know just how fast kai 6 was, and what kai 7 is capable of. We didnt have these issues just a few weeks ago, but then again, you couldnt do with 6 what you can do with 7. once we get these issues sorted, its like td said in another post today, its all gravy. everything will work as fast if not faster than it did in 6.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 6:43 pm

Apache_1, I tested Kai since beta 0002, and since then, Kai has given me (and the people I play with) much smoother games of Halo than any other tunnel I've used. 0006 was some of the best times I ever had on Halo, and if Kai evo7 can potentially be faster than that, then it's definitely worth waiting for the updates. TD knows stuff... I've been in convos on MSN where people have given him a really vague description of their prob and he's had it fixed in a matter of minutes. Between TeamXLink and everyone that uses Kai, bugs can be found and fixed - and the games will be really smooth again. Smoother than ever.

Quote:

Not to mention that my pings are lower and more stable.

Pings aren't as important as a lot of people think. You can play in 90+ pings and have just as much lag as in a server that you ping 50 to... It depends on a lot of other things, don't try to judge the lag by the ping Smile

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 6:47 pm

Thanks all for your input. Just a quick note also. I really did not mean to offend anyone and if I did I sincerely apologize.

Yes I am being very patient and do realize that the new Kai 7 is the next generation of tunneling software.

Thanks again,

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 6:55 pm

also, i dont understand this....

xbox is NOT the same as pc...for several reasons....

1) nearly EVERY game that people are hosting is a p2p sort of session...they are HOSTING on the same box they are PLAYING from...what does this mean? that there may be some lag from that alone...its just how xbox works, and it works usually quite well. As a result, the connection depends on more than just:

2) PING is NOT as important as so many people think it is. Live games have SUPER efficient netcode that usually allows games to work with pings like 2-300 even...thats 1/4-1/3 a second!!! you cant play pc games with a ping like that, but xbox games run GREAT!!!! cuz they are optimized for it. games like halo are NOT! its not an excuse that halo runs slow on xlink for now because of this, THAT reason is because of a few bugs that are already fixed in upcoming release, its just something to keep in mind.

3) knowing both of these, you should realize that there are no "servers" like pc games, but merely hosts, someone hosting... and if you say "well on xbc, its better pings... what is that supposed to mean?? all it means is that there is someone who is closer on the net to you... thats it. it means nothing. if they played on xlink, they would have the same exact ping to you as they do on xbc!!! because its just the timing of a packet from your pc to theirs! any tiny differences are irrelevant!

xlink has a much more GLOBAL userbase, so people are coming from every corner of the earth, not just usa or uk...

so....

now that you realize this, thats when i remind everyone that 6 played perfectly smooth, because it was optimized for what it did. NOW, weeks later, TONS of new things have been added, and 7 needs to be re-optimized for everything thats there now. It WILL get to be FASTER than 6, its just going to take some bug fixing....

what would everyone rather have had? a "mostly working client, with some bugs that will be gone in days/weeks"? or to wait another month past release day, so that me and the rest of the crew could play around with it by ourselves instead?

I choose the latter...

Hope this clears up things for anyone (even unintentionally) having complaints with 7 in its current state. Very Happy

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:32 pm

I'm glad to hear that the Halo bugs are being worked on. As a horribly addicted Halo player I was used to being on XLink Messenger nearly every day and these first few days of Kai have been kind of traumatizing. Things seemed better last night though.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:43 pm

Quote:

knowing both of these, you should realize that there are no "servers" like pc games, but merely hosts, someone hosting...

I'm new and this may be totally off topic but is there by chance going to be a release for modded xbox's that will let them serve as just hosts?

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:44 pm

So do system link games bypass the netcode useed in the Live counterparts? In other words since I don't know of any LAN in which pings reach 10 is netcode stripped since with a ping of under 10 and a 100mbit line you woldn't ever need it?

I understand that making a faux Live tunnel is darn near impossible but if Xlink games are going to suffer from no netcode at all it's kind of like the difference between playing Counter Strike and playing Quake 2.... and even on DSL I am not sure how I ever played quake 2 with any kind of accuracy.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:49 pm

childsremix wrote:

Quote:

knowing both of these, you should realize that there are no "servers" like pc games, but merely hosts, someone hosting...

I'm new and this may be totally off topic but is there by chance going to be a release for modded xbox's that will let them serve as just hosts?

modded boxes will not likely (if ever) have a version of kai that runs on the xbox by itself, as it would require support in the bios.

for now, very soon, remote control of the kai client that runs on the pc, will be available, we are told, by various dashboards for the xbox, like xbmc, avalaunch, unleashx and mxm.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:51 pm

Devedander wrote:

So do system link games bypass the netcode useed in the Live counterparts? In other words since I don't know of any LAN in which pings reach 10 is netcode stripped since with a ping of under 10 and a 100mbit line you woldn't ever need it?

I understand that making a faux Live tunnel is darn near impossible but if Xlink games are going to suffer from no netcode at all it's kind of like the difference between playing Counter Strike and playing Quake 2.... and even on DSL I am not sure how I ever played quake 2 with any kind of accuracy.

in games that have live AND system link, the net code is usually almost identical, minus the live specific stuff. whereas games like halo that never had live, have horrible netcode, because b/w isnt supposed to be an issue on a lan like it is on the net. toca race driver live (not toca 2) is another game that this is evident with...a dev with bad netcode on lan, will usually have high b/w requirements.

does that answer you well?

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:05 pm

jmel wrote:

unleashx

Hehe, the answer to my prayers. I was hoping UnleashX would have evo7 support, but couldn't find any info Sad

. Thanks jmel Wink

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:10 pm

Whoa!!! I must have hit a raw nerve on this topic!

And yes pings must matter as when I see a game start to lag someone's ping in the room skyrockets over 250 and then the lag starts. So when you say the pings dont matter? Oh yes they do jmel and I am sure if you ask anyone else they will tell you the same thing and by the way I have never had a smooth running game with pings over 200!!

The rest of what you say does make sense but I have to disagree with your statment about the pings.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:13 pm

And what I dont have the right to voice my opions without having someone jump all over f**king a$$??

It was just a simple question that I was curious about.

JESUS LIGHT UP!!!!

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:23 pm

Apache_1 wrote:

And what I dont have the right to voice my opions without having someone jump all over f**king a$$??

It was just a simple question that I was curious about.

JESUS LIGHT UP!!!!

no one said you didnt have the right to, if so, i would have deleted/locked your post...

it was an excellent question. Wink

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:30 pm

Apache_1 wrote:

Whoa!!! I must have hit a raw nerve on this topic!

And yes pings must matter as when I see a game start to lag someone's ping in the room skyrockets over 250 and then the lag starts. So when you say the pings dont matter? Oh yes they do jmel and I am sure if you ask anyone else they will tell you the same thing and by the way I have never had a smooth running game with pings over 200!!

The rest of what you say does make sense but I have to disagree with your statment about the pings.

hrm... i dont remember saying it DOESNT matter....

i think if you re-read i said that its not as IMPORTANT as people make it out to be. Ping will always play into things, just as bandwidth will...

what game are you talking about? if its halo, i covered that in my response...it has shitty netcode... if you have ever played midtown madness 3 or pgr2, you'd realize its quite possible to play with a 150 to 200 ping, and you can barely tell.

halo is NOT the only game that people play on xlink, tho i do get it has a larger presence...

its all about finding those with pings that are low, yes, for games like halo that have shitty netcode...

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:37 pm

Yeah Halo must have a very shitty netcode as R63 runs really smooth but I have noticed some lag from time to time on that game also especially when someones ping, or mine, hits over 350.

Just FYI I prefer XLink Kai over XBC anyway and always will. The people on the Kai network are more socialable and easier to get along with than most of the jerks on XBC.

Hopefully the new Halo2 will have a better netcode than the old version.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 8:43 pm

Apache_1 wrote:

Hopefully the new Halo2 will have a better netcode than the old version.

I think you'd want to hope for a system link mode in Halo 2. Because without that it can't be played on Xlink.