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TheDaddy



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:04 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hey,

I just read some posts about this GCN controlsim thingy - looks sweet..

Some guys have worked out how, with a hacked GCN, they can get the controller data out. If they could freeze the CPU each frame, until they got data over, say, LAN for a remote controller, it's possible for them to get *any* game where you can play with 2 local players to work online!

Also, because things like MKDD sync each frame, in theory this controlsim thing would work just as fast (slow?) as those "online" games..

Reminds me a lot of when we did the work getting XPorts megedrive / NES / etc. emulators working with Kai - they played well with a low ping - I remember playing Sonic 2 on megadrive with someone (or Sonic 3? - The one where you can race tails in split screen).. works well for those, so if these guys can do what they say, it could be nice..

Anyone got any more detailed information on this stuff?

TD
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Hajaz
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

yeah im curious about it too...
what do they mean with "modded GC" tho?
i doubt it refers to the recently released viper chip since this thing has been in the works since way before viper was even announced.

maybe best if you checked out dextrose.com for the technical details. i thought it was ducumented there.

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Last edited by Hajaz on Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TheDaddy



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ah ok ... I'll head over there and have a look..

TD
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NeoBlizz
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Might contain some information on the subject/software thingy..


http://www.gcdev.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=9353
http://www.geocities.com/fuzziqer_software/index.htm
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djveeman
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:05 am Reply with quoteBack to top

hey the daddy try to get in contact with the person making controlsim it would be so awesome to have a ssmb room in kai Very Happy
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Gamelver
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:06 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I really hope this thing turns out to work, 'cause right now, there aren't many LAN or online capable GC games but if these guys succeed...............SSBM online, SCII online, Mario Golf online (I love mario golf games Smile), and other games I can't think of now for some reason..........anyway, I hope this ends up working....if so, I'm definitely getting another GC and a broadband adapter to play GC online with Smile.
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TheDaddy



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:47 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Awww... just drop the rj45 socket in Gamelver - you *know* you can fit it in Razz

TD
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Gamelver
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:30 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I definitely could.........but I'm too lazy Razz......after I've got all the guts in (again...) I'll think about it Smile. I think there's some room in there actually, 'cause one of the battery packs is gonna be external, leaving me some space.....I'll have to see if EB has any broadband adapters, and if they do......time to take it home and rip it open Smile!!!!!!!! now that I think about it it would be pretty easy.........hmmmmm I think I'll do it Smile!!!!!!!!! and if this controlsim thing ends up working...........I'll definitely be glad I put it in Smile!!!!!!!
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Gamelver
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

hmmmmmm will the GC need to be modded with a chip for this to work? if so, then all I would be able to play is official LAN games (and online games) Sad...
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TheDaddy



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm still trying to get info on this - kinda short for time atm though... certainly looks like impressive work.

If you guys can dig any more info up, get on it - this looks cool Smile

TD
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l3laze
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:29 am Reply with quoteBack to top

i went to the nearest frys electronics and they had tons of bba over there.....and i am talking about like 20 of them....hella dusty tho Razz

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biolizard89
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:38 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hello, you may recognize me as the guy who asked half the questions in that GCDev thread. So, basically, here are the answers to your questions:

You do not need a modded GC. You can use one if you wish, but you can also use PSOLoad, SDLoad, a Max Drive Pro, or any other method of putting a homebrew program onto the GameCube.

TheDaddy's comment about speed is not quite correct; if you have the addresses for the particular game you're playing that store important data that controls sync (e.g. player's XYZ coordinates, item data, etc.), ControlSim can let a game run full-speed by syncing those addresses as well as the controller data. No more ping worries, it will run full-speed regardless of ping.

However, that's also the limitation of ControlSim: you need the addresses for each game. It's fairly easy to find addresses if you're computer-savvy, but if you're not and you just want to play your favorite obscure game online, you may have to wait a while for someone to find addresses for you to use. However, common games like SSBM will have addresses found very quickly once ControlSim is out, so unless you like really obscure games it won't make much difference.

I asked Fuzziqer (the author) if he would be interested in using Warp Pipe or Xlink's server for gamefinding if those respective parties allowed it, and he seemed interested. Chad of Warp Pipe later declined when I talked to him about it. Anyway, TheDaddy, I think it would be great if you let ControlSim use Xlink's server.

Oh, and because when I talked about this at Warp Pipe some idiot started thinking I was the author and caused a big headache, lemme say this: I AM NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONTROLSIM DAMMIT! I know a lot about it because I pay attention to publicly available info, not for any other reason. Sorry to bother you with this disclaimer, but idiots force me to.
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l3laze
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:43 am Reply with quoteBack to top

thanks for that info...

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TheDaddy



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Yes - thanks bio..

Yes, I'd be happy to work with him to achieve that - I love those kinda projects - and it could really lift the online gaming scene for GCN Smile

About the ping stuff - I see what you mean, but surely that would throw the games wildly out of sync? I dunno - perhaps I dont get it right, but we tried a similar thing ages back with MKDD (ie feeding it data every 20ms, regardless of whether we have got it over the net yet) - and it was 100% smooth, but what you saw on one persons screen was completely different to the other guys Very Happy Cars running into walls etc Very Happy

Either way - I would certainly like to work with this guy Smile

TD
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biolizard89
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

About it being ping-dependent: you can't run Mario Kart at full speed because since you're only transferring controller data (relative movement), not other stats (absolute location), you can't resync when you lose sync. With ControlSim, a player's XYZ coordinates will also be transferred, as well as any item data, so when it loses sync because the controller data that it guessed was incorrect, within a couple frames it will be resynced with the XYZ and item data. So you will constantly be losing sync, but it is being constantly corrected for as the data arrives, even if the data arrives late. So the gaming experience is still good even with a high ping.

There, I hope I explained that understandably (explaining the workings of a program is not something I'm good at). Smile

EDIT: Oh, and in theory you can even get your own screen. I don't know if Fuzziqer plans to add this to ControlSim or not, but in theory you can sync a human player on one GameCube to a CPU player on another, which means that in, say, F-Zero GX, you could do Grand Prixs online, which would give everyone their own screen, let up to 30 people play, and have the good-quality graphics not found in multiplayer mode. The problem with this is finding the addresses for the CPU players, because you never have direct control over them. Again, I don't know if Fuzziqer plans to add this to ControlSim, but it's definitely possible.
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TheDaddy



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hmmm..

You'll forgive me being cynical I hope, but that doesn't sound realistic.. Hacking out controller data, I could easily believe - hence the name "controlsim" - but extracting gamestate data in the way you describe.. well.. I'd call BS on that.

If indeed he can do that, I'll be very, very impressed - it would be a very significant development for online GCN gaming.. big time..

I'm going to dig a little deeper into all this i think.. has anyone actually *seen* it working?

TD
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biolizard89
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

On GCDev, Sappharad posted his proof-of-concept for this, GC-Online-Tunnel. It only works with Sonic Adventure 2 Battle because it can't do addresses that are accesses through pointers and most games use pointers. I have not tried it as I don't have SA2:B, but he says he successfully played a game with a dial-up user. And GC-Online-Tunnel syncs the XYZ coordinates of the player as well as controller data.

ControlSim will have many more features than GC-Online-Tunnel, but it's the same idea.

So yes, this idea has been shown to work.
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l3laze
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

can we have a link?

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djveeman
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

http://projects.sappharad.com/gcn/gc_online/GC_online_tunnel.zip
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Oshtoby
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:19 am Reply with quoteBack to top

djveeman @ Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:48 pm wrote:
http://projects.sappharad.com/gcn/gc_online/GC_online_tunnel.zip

Anyone up for trying it?

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