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djveeman
Kai Admirer
Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 325
Location: USA - Illinois
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 Posted:
Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:11 am |
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im still waiting for pso, but once i got it i will try this program.  |
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sharpener
Kai Beginner
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 49
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Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:54 am |
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"Anyone know much about this ControlSim thing?"
Well, I do, considering I'm the author of it. Any questions, feel free to ask. |
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mrstupes
Kai Beginner
Joined: 23 May 2004
Posts: 9
Location: USA - California
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Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:21 pm |
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Oshtoby I'm willing to test Sonic Adventure 2 with you |
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biolizard89
Kai Regular
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 114
Location: USA - Oklahoma
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Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:50 pm |
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Since ControlSim isn't finished yet, and so that the people who have Sonic Adventure 2: Battle can play without resorting to using the forums for gamefinding, would it be possible for Xlink Kai to include a frontend for GC-Online-Tunnel, so that games could be set up the same way as other Kai-compatible games? Since it wouldn't involve writing any additional network code (just bundling GC-Online-Tunnel, PSOLoad, and GCNrd and writing the appropriate GUI), I could see it being finished way before Fuzziqer has time to finish ControlSim. And once ControlSim is finished . . . it would still give people a choice in case ControlSim doesn't work for them or something.
Would the Xlink developers be interested in something like that? |
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TheDaddy
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 0
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Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:37 am |
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Well,
As part of our DS development, we've developed a new interface to the kai engine - "External Capture". This is a pretty flexible system whereby an external app can "feed" kai data, and Kai will perform al the internet routing - then hand it back to the external app on the other end.
This is pretty much complete now - and I hope to be able to release it in a nice open way for people to hook into.
I think that constitues a "Yes" - and if it doesn't I'd be happy to consider any other proposition. The cube is too good to rot with only 3 online games, 2 of which blow..
TD |
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biolizard89
Kai Regular
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 114
Location: USA - Oklahoma
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Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:46 am |
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That sounds interesting. Would it be possible using that to:
Set GC-Online-Tunnel's remote IP address to 127.0.0.1 in its config.
Modify GC-Online-Tunnel's source to connect to whatever port Kai would want to use to listen on.
Have Kai listen for a connection from GC-Online-Tunnel on 127.0.0.1.
Have Kai receive transfer GC-Online-Tunnel's data that way.
Or is there an even better way that I'm not aware of?
In addition to that, if Kai automatically installed GC-Online-Tunnel (the version with the changed port as mentioned above) in the Kai directory on install, configured the config file automatically, and launched it (preferably invisibly), that would help with user-friendlyness. In addition, maybe Kai could include GCNrd's loader.dol and PSOLoad, so that it could automatically get GCNrd running (which is required for GC-Online-Tunnel) and prompt the user on what to do on PSO, without relying on the user's knowledge of how to work PSOLoad.
That sound any good, or am I just dreaming? |
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TheDaddy
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 0
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Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:30 pm |
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Yes - that's easily doable..
OK, first - a few assumptions:
> GCOT works 1vs1 - yes? ie - no 4 or 6 player games?
> It would communicate using UDP - not TCP
> It can be modified to send to UDP data out to 127.0.0.1:34527, and listen for data back on 34528 - all UDP.
> It can be made to be headless (ie, nothing shown on the screen at all)
> It can receive a special opcode as a UDP message, which will make the process terminate.
If those things are possibly, integration will be trivial - the kaiEngine will start the GCOT process when it launches, and close it when it dies. It will receive the UDP data, and route it to the other player - everything in the client will work as normal - including headset voice
You'll have to explain the loader.dol and PSOLoad to me - I know nothing about that - but I'm sure the integration would be easy for the main GCOT app.
TD |
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biolizard89
Kai Regular
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 114
Location: USA - Oklahoma
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:36 am |
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| TheDaddy @ Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:30 am wrote: |
Yes - that's easily doable..
OK, first - a few assumptions:
> GCOT works 1vs1 - yes? ie - no 4 or 6 player games? |
That's correct.
| TheDaddy @ Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:30 am wrote: |
| > It would communicate using UDP - not TCP |
Unfortunately I think it uses TCP . . . I'm not sure, though. I'll ask Sappharad. If it does use TCP, how much harder does that make it?
EDIT: Sappharad says it uses TCP. Is that a significant problem?
| TheDaddy @ Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:30 am wrote: |
| > It can be modified to send to UDP data out to 127.0.0.1:34527, and listen for data back on 34528 - all UDP. |
I believe changing the ports and hardcoding the IP address 127.0.0.1 would be pretty easy, looking at the source.
| TheDaddy @ Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:30 am wrote: |
| > It can be made to be headless (ie, nothing shown on the screen at all) |
I assume so, I'm not enough of a programmer to know for sure.
| TheDaddy @ Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:30 am wrote: |
| > It can receive a special opcode as a UDP message, which will make the process terminate. |
The only way I can think of to do that would probably be to change it so that it exits when it's been disconnected instead of going back to a main menu.
| TheDaddy @ Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:30 am wrote: |
If those things are possibly, integration will be trivial - the kaiEngine will start the GCOT process when it launches, and close it when it dies. It will receive the UDP data, and route it to the other player - everything in the client will work as normal - including headset voice
You'll have to explain the loader.dol and PSOLoad to me - I know nothing about that - but I'm sure the integration would be easy for the main GCOT app.
TD |
GC-Online-Tunnel requires a homebrew app called GCNrd (the loader.dol component of it) to be running on the GameCube. Homebrew apps are loaded onto the GameCube using PSOLoad. You can download PSOLoad from http://www.gcdev.com/download/PSOloadV2.0a.zip and you can download GCNrd from http://www.gscentral.com/menu.pl?Download (at the bottom, you want GCNrd and GCNrdGUI). The only thing that might be hard about integrating it is that normally, you need to have GCNrdGUI running on your PC when you put in the game disc on the GameCube; GCNrdGUI is closed-source so I'm not sure exactly what it's doing. It could be just sending a RUN command to loader.dol, or it could be doing something else, I don't know. GC-Online-Tunnel recommends that you just set it up manually, close GCNrdGUI, and then start GC-Online-Tunnel. I don't know how easy it would be to do that automatically. Granted, it's not necessary for Kai to do that automatically, but I assume using Ethereal while GCNrdGUI is running will give all the needed info for Kai to do so, and it would make it more user-friendly. Note: loading loader.dol onto the GameCube should be able to be disabled by the user, since some people may want to use a nonPSOLoad method like SDLoad, a Max Drive Pro, or a modchip. So I guess it should ask the user if they already have loader.dol loaded with the game running or not.
I hope this info helps somewhat. |
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TheDaddy
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 0
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Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:30 pm |
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OK,
The only problem we're gonna have here is if it uses TCP. Kai is designed around message based streaming of game data - the TCP ACK mechanism kills most games dead  .
I'm gonna be releasing a PRE tonight with the external capture in - I'll document it in this thread once im done - then we can decide what to try to do with it.
Cheers
TD |
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Big_Evil89
Kai Beginner
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 32
Location: Canada
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Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:47 am |
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whats the site where i can find info? |
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sharpener
Kai Beginner
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 49
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Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:02 am |
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TheDaddy
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 0
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Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:11 am |
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Oooooo
Hehe.. sorry Sharpener - I missed your post above.
Looks like you've done some excellent work - I'm gonna get PSO from a friend so I can use these tools 
If you have MSN, feel free to add me - flat235@hotmail.com - maybe we can figure a way to use Kai's infrastructure to your advantage
TD |
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DRThugZ
Kai Beginner
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 5
Location: USA - New Jersey
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Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:05 pm |
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F-Zero GX online, 30 ppl playin in one game with their own screen.....That would be crazy |
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Hajaz
Kai Admirer
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 381
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Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:50 pm |
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i dont think that would work.
it would still be split screen if im understanding this right. |
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biolizard89
Kai Regular
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 114
Location: USA - Oklahoma
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Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:24 am |
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| Hajaz @ Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:50 am wrote: |
i dont think that would work.
it would still be split screen if im understanding this right. |
It's possible. It involves making the GameCube think that all the remote players are CPU players. That way you don't see their screen. Fuzziqer/Sharpener said he might try adding that to ControlSim once he's done with higher priorities. The only thing is, 30 players would probably use quite a lot of bandwidth. |
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Hajaz
Kai Admirer
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 381
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Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:33 am |
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OMFG that would rock
im up for testing btw (presuming i can launch the controllersim with a viperGC?) |
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sharpener
Kai Beginner
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 49
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Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:41 am |
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| DRThugZ @ Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:05 pm wrote: |
| F-Zero GX online, 30 ppl playin in one game with their own screen.....That would be crazy |
Yeah, it would. And right now, it isn't supported (max 4 players in a game). It may be supported later. Something like that would probably slow down the game by quite a bit, though, because ControlSim has to process a packet from each client every 2 or 3 frames. And it might overrun the allocated buffer in memory and overwrite the GCARS reader & writer. |
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biolizard89
Kai Regular
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 114
Location: USA - Oklahoma
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Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:45 pm |
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| sharpener @ Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:41 pm wrote: |
| DRThugZ @ Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:05 pm wrote: |
| F-Zero GX online, 30 ppl playin in one game with their own screen.....That would be crazy |
Yeah, it would. And right now, it isn't supported (max 4 players in a game). It may be supported later. Something like that would probably slow down the game by quite a bit, though, because ControlSim has to process a packet from each client every 2 or 3 frames. And it might overrun the allocated buffer in memory and overwrite the GCARS reader & writer. |
For slowing down the game, would optimizations be able to reduce that, or is the current code as good as it can get? I assume that it could still be done to give each player their own screen with only 4 (or maybe 8) players with no problems since CPU players have the same number of variables controlling them as human players, is that correct? And with the buffer overrun . . . could improved memory management deal with that, or is there no memory left to allocate when there's a game running? |
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djveeman
Kai Admirer
Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 325
Location: USA - Illinois
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Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:37 pm |
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why cant you just give a person fullscreen? |
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Conners
Kai Beginner
Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 23
Location: United Kingdom
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Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:32 pm |
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is this thing working yet then. so does this mean that we can play fifa 2005 then over kai eventually, thing games like that would be better, where both players are on screen at the same time. |
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