Not happy with this, surely its cheating

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:10 pm

Just playing online now with HALO 2 & some bloke has admited to me (thru headset) that he has modded the map so the sword has a longer range, so much in fact, that he goes about 5 times my speed when slaying opponents, moves faster than a sniper bullet !!

Now this isnt sour grapes as he wasnt killing me as we were playing teams & he was on MY side

I left the game as I feel its cheating

Your comments please

JtR

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:17 pm

Well, it's one of the drawbacks mate...those who cheat are probably pretty bored of the game anyway and only want to exploit the last drop of it...I assume they'll stop playing eveuntually when nobody wants to play with them because they're cheating.

You can get the details through logs etc of the people on certain servers at certain times...remember this for future refrence and report it to the powers that be.

Other than that, don't be angry: anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, and suffering leads to the dark side of the force Smile

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:54 pm

There is also a "sword exploit" documented in one of the gaming magazines(i'm not tellin' which one). The exploit allows for some crazy sword action. BUT, it's an exploit, not a hack. Still a cheat in my book.

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:04 pm

Forgive me, but don't people resort to cheats once they're bored of the game? Aren't there a lot of cheaters around? Bungie.. you listening?

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:32 pm

Yup Believe me ive looked at he levels inside and out and if you could see the shit i have man they did such a lame arse job.
the same effects for explosions used in 5 different weapons , the same contrails used time and time again
nothing is individual like it was for good ole halo, it makes my modds alot harder to make.
And on that point I hope my maps arnt being abused in the normal arenas, even during the beta testing stages im always in the mods and hacks arena provided by Kai.

Kai Regular Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 166

boxo-XR @ Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:54 pm wrote:

There is also a "sword exploit" documented in one of the gaming magazines(i'm not tellin' which one). The exploit allows for some crazy sword action. BUT, it's an exploit, not a hack. Still a cheat in my book.

Sorry boxo, had to.

Then, uh... what about the lean glitch that was/is used extensively in RB6 and always recieved a reply of "its not cheating cause everyone can use it!". That response was returned by the members of the major clans and without a doubt, was used in clan matches and tourneys. Why the change now over the right to use something built into the game by accident or purpose and available to everyone? Seems like a change of policy of some people. Policy that shouldnt be changed upon the thoughts of a few empowered clans that are themselves guilty.

Knowledge to defend against exploits its key. Exploits published will keep the secrets from a few and level the playing field. Used or not, at least everyone will know what exists.

Halo2 glitches are known and have been published. They are as follows:

Vanishing Flag Trick (in the game): Stealing the flag by grabbing from below the floor. (Coagulation during CTF) or throwing it out of the building by tossing it at the stairs.(Zanzibar during CTF)

Sword trick: Setting rocket sight on a target until it turns red, then switching to your sword while trying to swing it at the same time will create a huge lunge.. or allow them to sail hundreds of meters. "

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:56 pm

koldfuzion @ Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:49 am wrote:

boxo-XR @ Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:54 pm wrote:

There is also a "sword exploit" documented in one of the gaming magazines(i'm not tellin' which one). The exploit allows for some crazy sword action. BUT, it's an exploit, not a hack. Still a cheat in my book.

Sorry boxo, had to.

Then, uh... what about the lean glitch that was/is used extensively in RB6 and always recieved a reply of "its not cheating cause everyone can use it!". That response was returned by the members of the major clans and without a doubt, was used in clan matches and tourneys. Why the change now over the right to use something built into the game by accident or purpose and available to everyone? Seems like a change of policy of some people. Policy that shouldnt be changed upon the thoughts of a few empowered clans that are themselves guilty.

Knowledge to defend against exploits its key. Exploits published will keep the secrets from a few and level the playing field. Used or not, at least everyone will know what exists.

Halo2 glitches are known and have been published. They are as follows:

Vanishing Flag Trick (in the game): Stealing the flag by grabbing from below the floor. (Coagulation during CTF) or throwing it out of the building by tossing it at the stairs.(Zanzibar during CTF)

Sword trick: Setting rocket sight on a target until it turns red, then switching to your sword while trying to swing it at the same time will create a huge lunge.. or allow them to sail hundreds of meters. "

Heheh. Yes they were published and I just didn't want to be the one spreading the word.

As for the "lean glitch"....people exploited the hell out of it and still do whenever I get in R63 game. I'm not gonna be rightcheous(SP) about it, but I do not use the glitches because they do not enhance the game for all who play. There is quite a difference between that and porting maps or ediiting a file inorder to allow more players into a game. It's my personal feeling and not necessarily that of my clan.

Kai Regular Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 166

Well that makes two of us. I never used it either and usually died because i didnt.

There are only three things i feel should be tolerated and you mentioned two of them. 1. Map porting, 2. Changes to allow more players. 3. Long Player names.

Other than those three.. if you mess with the files.. you are screwed up as any and every cheater.

Map porting and name editing wasnt the topic of discussion though.

The lean glitch is and was tolerated and very much used by every clan here on KAI. It's undeniable.

Why is/was that one ok to use, yet others are not?
If I called XR cheaters because they used the lean glitch.. what do you think the reply will be? (see previous post for reply).

My point is simple. If a lean glitch is perfectly ok for everyone to use in RB6. Then glitches in RB6 BA, GR2, MA2, H2 or any other game should be perfectly usable without being called a cheater or you might as well call XR, SSc, TA, DK, SaD, SVC cheaters because the clans (as a groups) are all guilty of using glitches.. whether in a tourney, clan match or open session.. they were used. None of them can honestly deny it and they are for the most part... good honest people to play with.

Where is the line drawn? Who controls the rules? If this is actually a community like everyone likes to call it. Then there should be a community drawn line that everyone abides to.. and there are no exceptions. No exceptions to the clan name, and no exceptions to game.

If the lean glitch was ok to use, then every known glitch should be ok to use..... or the exact opposite. Problem is, some clans have already set the precedent to allow the use of glitches by accepting the use of the Lean Glitch. You cannot erase the past.

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:06 am

Glitching is hard to contest, because they can happen by accident. That's how they are discovered. The lean was bitched about alot and eventually accepted, because there was really nothing anyone could do but bitch. Is it acceptable gameplay? I suppose if it is an anomally of the game and everyone can use it, it can't really be considered a cheat. I don't serve much for games, but it is my right to boot and would definitely boot glitchers.

Kai Regular Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 166

Just a few posts up, you said it was cheating, now you say if they are available for everyone to use, its not cheating.

Well the glitches people find can be used by everyone.. so no one is cheating if they use them.

Team XLink Moderator Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 1357

koldfuzion @ Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:12 am wrote:

Well the glitches people find can be used by everyone.. so no one is cheating if they use them.

Here's my input on the situation. We can all say that some styles of gameplay are acceptable at certain times right? We don't go team killin and comittin suicide in games for tourneys like we do for pictures correct? Some shit is accepted, and yet some isn't. Lean glitch is accepted because anyone can do it, no skill needed, it's no where near as bad in BA than in the old rs3. That's a fact.

The glitches that were in question (that you seem to continue to refer to) was used in the RSL by one of your own after being told that doing so would be considered cheating. I was told that it wouldn't be a problem, and that all glitches that were found and praticed by the svc team the night before the playoffs would not be used. Here's an example of the glitch in question:

I dare someone to say that this glitch is in any way compairable to the lean glitch of the old rs3. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's impossible to use by others, I'm just saying that the obvious exploitation of the map in "tourney" play shows for a lack of dignity. Even more so, a lack of respect to those who managed to get to the end without using "glitches."

psychosematic wrote:

DEF. OF GLITCH <--Link
1. minor malfunction, mishap, or technical problem

DEF. OF CHEATING <--Link
1. To deceive by trickery; swindle
2. To deprive by trickery; defraud
3. To mislead; fool
4. To elude; escape

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:27 am

koldfuzion @ Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:12 am wrote:

Just a few posts up, you said it was cheating, now you say if they are available for everyone to use, its not cheating.

Well the glitches people find can be used by everyone.. so no one is cheating if they use them.

I also said I would boot anyone in my game for glitching. Maybe when I said I considered it cheating, I should have just said glitching is unacceptable play in my book.

I do not use them because I feel they are wrong to use in gameplay. They are damn near impossible to control though. Are you trying to make me look like a hypocrate or just picking a fight? Very Happy

Kai Regular Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 166

no boxo, im not saying you are hypocrate. I am trying to prove a point that the use of and acceptance of glitches are seemingly GOVERNED by a few and the established clans have and DO accept them. But they dont want any others used except for what they like to use.

Quote:

Here's my input on the situation. We can all say that some styles of gameplay are acceptable at certain times right? We don't go team killin and comittin suicide in games for tourneys like we do for pictures correct? Some shit is accepted, and yet some isn't. Lean glitch is accepted because anyone can do it, no skill needed, it's no where near as bad in BA than in the old rs3. That's a fact.

Thats a hypocrate. No Swift, the door glitch you illustrate is no where near comparable to the Lean glitch. The lean glitch was a million times worse than the door glitch you illustrate. Why? Because the lean glitch made it harder for a person to get killed by making the shot area small than normal. In the door glitch, can you still see that person in the air? Yes, Can he be shot and killed as usual, yes. Yet you still condone the lean glitch as acceptable.

Yes, one of my clan members used that glitch on your team. AFTER they lost the match against your team. Yet you want to "disqualify" them after the fact. They were having fun with you, not using it to win...but maybe you wasnt so Swift to realize that and have to wait for the score screen to know it.

This is exactly my point. The opinions of a few and what they personnaly think is acceptable is being forced onto everyone else in KAI.

I feel the lean glitch is cheating. No i didnt use it. Yes it DOES give you an advantage and was used by DK, XR, TA, SSc etc in clan matches and tourneys. Now who is cheating?

Thank you swift, you summed up my point. Glitches are acceptable only if some of the people and clans say they are. Maybe they can provide a list of acceptable glitches and stop being 2-faced.

And uh, Swift, I wasnt refering to the glitches used in the RSL in this topic. I could give a damn about the RSL, the glitches used or who won it.

Im talking about all glitches in general and the acceptance of the Lean glitch (by you too) which you re-enforced with your reply. Also, the door glitch was hardly found and practiced the night before the RSL championship. The door glitch has been known by most for quite some time now. The RSL is your thing, do with it as you will, but the RSL is not kai and your biased laws for play do not govern everyone.

Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:32 am

well this seems to be getting slightly personal. cant we all just chill a little

Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:43 am

DK.Swift @ Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 am wrote:

I was told that it wouldn't be a problem, and that all glitches that were found and praticed by the svc team the night before the playoffs would not be used. Here's an example of the glitch in question:

psychosematic wrote:

DEF. OF GLITCH <--Link
1. minor malfunction, mishap, or technical problem

DEF. OF CHEATING <--Link
1. To deceive by trickery; swindle
2. To deprive by trickery; defraud
3. To mislead; fool
4. To elude; escape

That is in fact a lie in its self. We didnt practice the night before. You did tell the other SVC member about the door glitch you are correct on that one, but he didnt do it to win. Get over it swift a glitch IS NOT a cheat. You think getting in a bush where you cant just walk into it is cheating. If I spent time playing a game to find sweet spots or glitches should I be punished? NO. should you just make rules in the end of the season? I guess.
psyco's def. of cheating is retarded. By those standards if you hide well you are cheating. To elude; escape. LOL

By the way, just throw that damn grenade in your hand and you can kill the person under the stairs.

Kai Admirer Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 369

Chesty_Puller @ Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:43 am wrote:

To elude; escape

just thought i'd say, e.g. cheat death.... not that lol'ish really....

Kai Regular Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 166

Nice general quote and comment. Thats the problem with the KAI community. People dont specify in any exactness where they stand.

You're right though, to cheat death is nothing to laugh at. That would = Lean Glitch. That was the whole reason it was used.

As far as I know, there is no other glitch that allows it, all others are cosmetic, meaning you might be able to get on something (like a door) but offers no protection or modification to your hit area.

Dont get me wrong. By posting a valid point on how screwed up people are, in no way am I stating that I support the use of glitches. I would rather none were used, as a personal preference.

The fact that people/clans used them in the past and now say to use them in other games is cheating/illegal etc... is just as wrong. Its 2-faced. They won tournaments and clan matches using that glitch.

The problem is that they are forcing a personal and varied opinion of a few onto the community as whole while the people saying "no" are just as guilty by past actions as demonstrated in this thread. Even when the results of the glitch they used far outwieghs the seriousness of a glitch used by another.

Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:51 pm

Dunno how this went from halo2 swords to R6 cheats but anywhoo...

I have to say that finding a way to get somewhere in a game that is difficult but still possible using only what is provided by the in game engine doesn't seem like a cheat.

It is quite possible cheap, and usually frowned upon, but hardly a cheat.

Where do you draw the line?

My friend still cannot for the life of him walk up the stone arch in battle creek to get the rocket launcer, does it mean I am cheating when I do it?

For some people it is very hard to crouch jump onto some ledges, so does that make it a cheat if I do it?

For some people it is hard to boost of another players head to get to high places, does that make it a cheat?

Some people do not have the time to find every nook and cranny in a game that can be accessed even if it is by exploiting a weakness in the game engine, does that make it a cheat?

If I am out playing paintball and some guy climbs into a tree with great cover that I am not tall or strong enough to climb into, does that mean he is cheating?

What if he crawls on his buddies shoulders to do it?

What if he utilizes a very springy branch to boost himself up onto the limb with good cover?

Where do you draw the line at cheating? I say if you can do it without modifying anything about the game it is not cheating. Again very possibly cheap, and likely dishonorable.

If you are just on a server where someone is acting in a way you see unfit, ask the server to kick the person or leave the server.

If you are in a clan match where it counts, bring it up with whoever runs is running the tourney or whatever. If they condone it, then learn to do it or leave. If they do not condone it the team doing so should be docked the win or kicked.

I can't even get 3 people to agree on what song to listen to on the radio, if you think you are going to get a whole world of gamers to agree with you good luck. Or you can stop wasting your time and just stay away from places that won't enforce the rules you would like enforced. After all, if everyone else likes cheating, who are you to tell them to stop?

Kai Regular Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 166

it went from halo2 to RB6 because there are glitches in both.

Im not trying to get the whole gaming community to agree.

Im just forcing the truth down the mouths of the few who have used glitches in open session/clan matches and official tournaments personally or as a clan..... TO NOW SAY OTHERS ARE CHEATING IF THEY DO IT TOO after swearing up and down that glitches were perfectly ok to use previously because everyone used them. (see swifts reply)

That is the point. Take the time to read the whole arguement.

Changing sides and Holy Rollin' when you feel like it, while being guilty of using them yourself, makes you that much more a loser.

Kai Lover Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 522

kold,

everyone knows you as a reply whore, who, will argue anyone to death who doesn't see it your way.

that out of the way, step back a moment and think. rainbow six 3's character was DESIGNED to walk, crouch, and lean around corners, in order to be as life-like as possible. the "lean" i suspect, was designed so you could peek around a corner at an enemy. the "killzone" for someone peeking around a corner is very small, naturally.

we all used that around here way before you came bitching up a storm to everybody, well over a year ago. once it was found that the GAME DEVELOPERS screwed up and couldn't make the game decifer between leaning around a corner and leaning out in the open, it was made public. then EVERYBODY used it. pessimists like yourself sat & complained. tactical thinkers like XR and others found ways around it...LIKE A FOCKIN GRENADE, and others, etc.

in their follow to r63, BA was able to make that distinction which was lacking in r63. done. made even the crabby patties happy Laughing

you got so much pent up anger dude, use it for a benefit, dont rag, its not becoming of you. use your energies and track down someone from Ubi and get them to put out a patch that will make the killzone bigger when leaning out in the open, not fully because, you are leaning, but bigger. but you won't, you're stuck in GR2 heaven, which i still like but MA2 has taken up so much playing time. Cool

perfect example was on peaks where you could hop over the fence that goes around the entire playing field, and climb up the back of a building and take out mofos like nothing...YOU ARE OUT OF THE GAMEZONE, that's cheating, and a patch was made to fix that.

which brings me to my next topic...the pic above that rabbit posted, that dude is OUT OF THE GAMEZONE, nobody playing the game to its fullest will expect someone there, that's what makes it cheating, an unfair advantage not derived by game skill.