There are more Important Issues then just Hackers.

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:01 pm

I just want to know : Is this mainly a problem with americans players or am I just online at the wrong times? I mainly play in the European area and expect for us dutchies ( Very Happy

) most players have their headset muted. So far it hasn't happend to me that I heard the ''N'' word (which I assume stands for Niger?) or any other kind of racisme.
As a matter of a fact it's almost imposisble to co-ordinate a good team defence on CTF because most players don't have headsets or speak english (and the one's that do are 90% of the time the more skilled players that don't need someone telling them to get the shotgun before the enemy does).

I'm sorry if this assumption is false and if some one felt attacked and/or offended by it in anyway.

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:04 pm

This thread could go on forever. People have been at cultural wars since the start of time. Of course most people would like to respect other indiviuals whatever their backgrounds might be. I think that people at xlink try thier best as a free service to uphold that respect. Hell, if you play on XBL your going to run into the same problems, and its hard for MS to monitor everything.

I say be respectful. If someone says something you dont like, make sure they are aware of it... just dont start bitching to mods about it. (not saying anyone on this thread is doing that). I think part of the problem is now days everyone is a bit to sensative to everything, everything needs to be PC. Of course calling someone a bad name, ethical or whatever is wrong. However, give the person a chance to fix it. Theres people on here from all over the world, and i think thats great. Sometimes you can tell you are playing with someone from anther country, and thats cool, IMO.

And yes, americans can be loud and say some stupid things, but that goes across the board due to the ingorance betweeen cultures, and what people are exposed to.

Anyway, my $.02 Kai is great, and anywhere u go in life there will be a$$holes... i say suck it up to a point, but there does come a point where people might cross the line. I just dont want kai to turn into a place were all we can say is happy stuff.

edit: btw, theres something to be said about the bratty 12 year old that just like to scream and make obnockious noises throughout a match as well.

Kai Beginner Joined: 09 Oct 2004 Posts: 31

I been reading some of things written and it apperars that some are still clueless about the "N" word. And by saying that the Klan can play here burns me up a lil. HAVE YOU EVER DEALT WITHE KKK IN REAL LIFE?..

Probably not but I have they are 20 minutes down the road I knew this subject would sky rocket but it seems that you guys just don't get it.

WE AFRICAN AMERICANS over time learned to use that word in a positive light over a long period of time when it was meant to be a way of downgrading us it's my generation and this is how we deal with the negative and turn it into a positive. So we say it not be to racist towards our own kind cause how can you be racist against those of the same color?....

On the other hand there are two ways to actually say it

1) The way we express it there is no racial tone to it at all. N***A

2) The way we take it in racial context is if you put the "ER" at the end of it. Hence the word N***ER.

Now I could got through my contact list and I bet alot of people know exactly what I'm talking about. And it is an American thing (no disrespect intended) You guys over in Europe have different opinons on racism and thats cool but its different over here yeah racism is all the same but it still stings none the less.

Racist tone is one that catches our attention and therefore unless you been there and dealt with the worst kind of people like I have how would you know? How would you know?.. Did you read about it somewhere?.. The KKK are right down the street are they in your area 20 minutes down the street?

And I'm telling you guys that there is a SIGNIFICANT diiference when African Americans say it as supposed to someone who says it out of hatred. We know the difference how come you don't ?...

I wanna chat with one of you 1 on 1 to further let you understand what I'm talkin about and help you understand the difference. I could get all kind of folks to write you and they will also tell you there is a big difference. There is a whole generation of African Americans who use the term. You never heard of a black guy killing another black guy for calling him the "N" word. If your familiar with our culture and say it like we do it doesn't matter. Now if you were white and used it out of the context we do you would more then likely get dealt with. Hence N***ER will get you hurt and that's pretty much the bottom line. And the N***A is alright with alot of us cause it's used in the manner in which we say it.

And there is the difference right there gentlemen. So what are we going to do about it?..... Most people in America know what I'm talkin about. This my opinion and the opinions of alot of us who know what I'm talkin about.

And Funk : How would you know that a black mod couldn't resolve this issue?.. You black?... You get called N***ER? And me personally I bite my tongue when there are kids in the room ask anybody who actually plays with me. Some words slip but like when I die I might say something but I always bite my tongue for the kids cause they don't need to hear some of the things we grown folks say.

Funk writes: Do not come to me with a problem and no solution.

WTF! thought you guys gave the solutions that's why I came here the solution is something you provide not me I have no power here but you do. If I had the solution I would'nt have came to the uppers about it in the first place.

And if I knew how you would treat this issue I wouldn't have f***ed with you in the first place. You add to it by writing B.S. about a situation I don't think your qualified to handle in the first place. Everybody else had great points but you on the other hand.. GTFOH And ban me for saying a word that I brought to your attention.?..

Funk also writes:So we will do this, any use of the word in any context will bring a permanent ban to that users name and IP address.

In any context HA! How about in racist context cause when we say it's not racist and I'm am black for those confused and half my clan is as well. So what you ban my whole clan?... Would you ban someone for calling you a "cracka"? And your white?.. Probably not huh. That is all I'm saying Funk some things you can and some things you can't bro.

And it's sad that as long as you've known me funk it seems your jumpin on my back alot. Your the only Admin I really talk to bro I figured we got a problem funk might shed some light on it. So don't bash me funk bro shed light man. My children are mixed so I can't be racist do any of you have any black folks in your families?. Funk if so ask them what they think and they'll tell you what I'm tellin you. Ask anybody on the street say to them N***A and nothing will happen if used how we use it but if you use "N***ER" and I bet you lose ya whole front row. Try it out and see if I'm telling the truth or not.

Don't bash me bro these are just my opinions and they are strong ones. You at least have to look at in our shoes before you'd fully understand.

Without peace there is only War.. I like saying that Smile

warmachine877@hotmail.com

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:02 pm

to be fair, i dont think u can blame Europe for this.

Kai Beginner Joined: 09 Oct 2004 Posts: 31

How will this this new orb logic work thats seems like a damn good idea make it easier to report pricks. And your comment about the the passworded rooms are nice as well so we can say what we want and offend no one.

And you pretty much answered my question bro. I'm not a prick (maybe to some) but as you can tell I'm very passionate about this cause I don't wanna leave Kai I have too much fun. Maybe I could have worded my sentences a lil better and if I offened anybody that was not my intention at all I swear it.

T.D. your options are fair and we can live with those thx for the help thats all I wanted in the first place not to be bashed about a touchy subject.

thx for the help the community appreciates it alot and thanks for trully understanding bro. Thats hard to find nowadays and I applaud you for that.

But I think our rooms will be private I was so blinded by rage I couldn't see the solution that's why I came here i the first place thx.

It's just mostly real late at night when it happens. And alot of people are sleeping but I'll get names and all the info I can so you guys can handle it I'll get witnesses all of that if you guys will help.

Kai Beginner Joined: 09 Oct 2004 Posts: 31

dbldown768 @ Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:02 am wrote:

to be fair, i dont think u can blame Europe for this.

Is that all you got out of that?.. Ride out man.

Team XLink Administrator Joined: 25 Apr 2004 Posts: 1871

firstly i would like to appoligise for even mentioning the KKK, it was wrong of me, but it was to make my point, that as long as they conducted themselves with respect for everybody, they would not get banned... but if they started to discriminate, they would get banned.

In fact thinking over the situation, if someone to was anounce that the were a member of that Political organisation, that would probably be enogth to warrent a ban, as its promoting racism, and against out AUP.

however as we are back on the usage of words, i do feel that word can be used in a racist context however it is said, but thats looking at it from my perspective.

I can only try to walk in your shoes, I can not make it 100%.

But it is not difficult to understand that words can be harmful, and I dont need to be American or Black.

If someone was calls someone anything that offends them, because of there nationality, ethnic background, sex or sexual preferance, then they are not following the AUP. you use a referance to the word Cracker, I personaly dont find that offencive, but no one in England would even use the word in that way.

What i'm trying to say, is that i agree with you, but my feelings are all forms of discrimiation should be stamped out.

Before this thread started today, i was not aware that this was a major problem in kai, I welcome getting tegether with you for a chat about it, and perhaps our differing views on word usage can be discussed.

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:48 pm

Okay the only problem I have is that mods and Admins are still just defending themselve and not helping in fact If I can get banned for sayin whats up my n then we have taken an immense step backward like thwowin the baby out with the bath water.

What that means is instead of talking about the situation and coming up with ideas and insight it seems a rash desecion was made to quell the situation.
That in itself shows that this problem is an issue bigger than just the N word.
Also the fact that out of all the peeps who have been Kai faithful and have worked to better participation in Kai. Yet none of the mods are of african decent, thats not strange to you guys

I mean since race is not an issue how is it that there arent black moderators, Ive been on Kai since the beggining, And I have seen dedicated guys who deserve to be mods of all races yet somehow guys who dont even game are mods( not doggin any mods ya my peeps but damn). Its the whole justification of the lack of african american mods that staggers me.

There thousand of people who play on kai and over the years there been tens of thousands but no black moderator and the best answer is "we dont choose by race" you shouldnt need to in statistcal terms it should be almost impossible for there not to have been at least one african american mod.

I love Kai but I speak my mind and the truth as much as I can, and I honestly am more dissapointed now than before War brought this up.

You guys can appoint anyone you want as mods its your position, I would just hope in the future you would go to the real vets of this community and ask them who they think should be mods,I bet that thered be a few african amrican names near or at the top of that list. Then you wouldnt have to just pick a mod cause he's black.

I guess because of the life i've lead i see this differently, You see as your not gonna make someone a mod just because of there color, I see all the mods being the same color.

Seems like a big bold contradiction to me

Kai Beginner Joined: 09 Oct 2004 Posts: 31

Thanks Taz I appreciate your concern. And I didn't want to piss anybody off my bad if I did.

I'm wanting Kai to be a place of just fun & friends just like you guys. I'd be bored without you guys providing this awesome place for gaming.

Playing Bingo or some shit Laughing

j/k But thanks good brotha for understanding this stuff. Mr. Green

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:52 pm

@War-Machine please just post us some names or tags. I would truly like to be able to harass these people. I am willing to bet that most of the community feels the same. We are here to have fun, compete, meet people, and play games.
I hate this shit. This is not a place where race, religion, sexual orientation, creed, or ethnicity should be an issue. There is no power to be had here. There is no fight to be won here. There is no preferencial status to be had. People that are using slurs are doing it to cause trouble, obviously. We can't accept it. I think team Xlink has made it clear that they will not.....

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:53 pm

uhhhhhhhhhhh! Neutral

do you really think they choose the mods intentially leaving out African Americans?

as stated above..this could go on forever. I only keep continually reading it cuz im @ work and ready to go home on a friday.

EDIT: and what boxo-XR said

Im happy to play with anyone on kai that doesnt cheat... and enjoys a good game... thats about it.

Kai Beginner Joined: 09 Oct 2004 Posts: 31

boxo-XR @ Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:52 am wrote:

@War-Machine please just post us some names or tags. I would truly like to be able to harass these people. I am willing to bet that most of the community feels the same. We are here to have fun, compete, meet people, and play games.
I hate this shit. This is not a place where race, religion, sexual orientation, creed, or ethnicity should be an issue. There is no power to be had here. There is no fight to be won here. There is no preferencial status to be had. People that are using slurs are doing it to cause trouble, obviously. We can't accept it. I think team Xlink has made it clear that they will not.....

And boxo my good brotha I'm starting to do that now o.k?... See I used to just hit up the mods I have on my MSN that's why I never wrote any names and stuff down but I know now that that is all I have to do I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get this out of the way. Team xlink will get my full support on this. All they ask is for names and stuff I can do that for them cause I know they don't play that racist shit either.

Joined: 30 Jul 2006 Posts: 0

I say again, you need to drop the whole "You should appoint a black moderator" thing. You know, apart from the mods whose pictures I've seen over the years, I honestly cannot tell you what colour or ethnicity they are. For all I know, there could be 0%, 50% 80% african-american. I simply dont know.

My point is, I have not, and never will set out to recruit a black / white / whatever moderator. Fact. We choose moderators based on their contribution and attitude in the forums, and in the client, and recommendations from users / other mods and admins.

I can guarantee you 100% that this position is understood by every single mod / admin on this service. You should know this, really.. if we truly do not have any black mods, the reason is not because we only choose white guys - the 2nd in charge of this thing is not white... it's just not about colour.

TD

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:32 pm

well i think swifty is like 25% mexican......so i guess that will do

j/k......or am i Cool

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:54 pm

*hug*...?
No?
Figured that's the best I could do to contribute to the topic. *walks away*

Kai Regular Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 108

This is always going to be a touchy topic

I think its not all about the one word. Its about the whole attitude.
There are many ways to racially villa file someone.

We need to look at attitudes more than focusing on a single word.

Its not about one word its about many words used in hurtfull and disrespectfull ways

That is all

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:24 pm

To T.D I only have one thing to say to you.....................
WORD Very Happy

It wasnt an accusation only an obsevation All you guys (sept maybe Funk Very Happy

) are cool with me. i just hope you dont have the impression that im politican here, yes i would like to be a mod but so would alot of peeps I have my personal opinion of who should have been a mod and hes not even in my clan so dont get it twisted this isnt about me I didnt even make this thread only gave my veiwpoint It is you guys show here so if you say well its not goin to change then its not and thatll have to do but it dont make it right or good it just makes it how it is and will be.

Like I said its perceptions, My statement about the races of mods and admins was takin as an insult when I only stated a fact kinda (sorry Df again) and i get the heat like im callin you guys racist im not and I had no part in picking admin or mods so how can I be in the wrong for stating the obvious, There are no black mods and from these other posts there wont be any.

My point was it astounds me that out of all the people who have played in this wonderful community called Kai not one minority mod has been selected not for hes or her color but thru the ordinary process that you have previously stated in this thread. No I'm not sayin it was intentional I am just trying to show you what I see and obvious by your responses you see it to and you guys own responses show that.

Sorry for all the drama I wasnt callin anyone out or bashin anyone I guess maybe this Kai world just like the real world just isnt ready for the truth.
Im done.

That is all!

Team XLink Administrator Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 3354

I might get into trouble for this, but what the hell. I am usually in trouble anyways if you talked to my wife.

I find it offensive that you would show respect to TD when he said the same thing as I did in more words or less. That to me is also a form of discrimination. Maybe not to you, but to me it is. Perception is reality no matter what anyone says. To answer your question, yes I would ban your whole clan if they used that word and I heard it. I have members of my family that are white (muts) and married to African Americans. Two in fact, and my grandfather was 100% American Indian. He married a woman from Ireland and they had 9 children together in their life together. I have dated white, Latino, and African American women.

The word used in any context is offensive. Maybe not to you because of “attitude” but to me it is. So to show respect for both points of view, just don’t say it! I don’t know how we can be any more clear on this. All moderators and admins use the forum and the application. Shit, most of you have my MSN and although I might not answer right away, I will at some point. Send a PM, speak to someone who you know will speak with me and the person using offensive language WILL BE REMOVED!

I am going to lock this topic. I believe the point has been made and now a solution is in place. Use it and we will go from there.

Last to Laddo, you sound like a moron with the “Im a moderator/boss n real life! But when you have a council of "power" and all views are the same it is destined for ignorance.........open your minds!” You just as so many before you stats a problem, but no resolution. I find that funny since you are a “boss” in “real life”. I was never a boss and I don’t think I ever will be, but I am a leader, a teacher, and a pupil. If I see a problem, I point it out and also give something substantial that can be used as a resolution path. Most call this innovation but you can call it what you want. Since none of the replies agreed with you, I gather that you are alone on this one. But I could be wrong there as well. Point is, don’t speak about something that people take personal unless you know what you are talking about.

Thanks!

Team XLink Moderator Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 1215

bobby drake wrote:

i would like to be a mod but so would alot of peeps I have my personal opinion of who should have been a mod and hes not even in my clan so dont get it twisted this isnt about me. so if you say well its not goin to change then its not and thatll have to do but it dont make it right or good it just makes it how it is and will be.

There are no black mods and from these other posts there wont be any.

My point was it astounds me that out of all the people who have played in this wonderful community called Kai not one minority mod has been selected not for hes or her color but thru the ordinary process that you have previously stated in this thread.

Okay.

1) Sorry bobby I took your post out of context. I only want to say the parts I didn't quote are the ones I agree with. I am not contradicting your whole pov.
2) I am sorry this thread is locked, it's understandable, but I feel somewhat hesitant to reply here.
3) I will still reply because I just want to get some things of my chest.

a) Bobby says a lot of people he considers 'mod material' are not a mod and he says "if you say well its not goin to change then its not". Now....
WHAT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE? The fact that they are not mods? Maybe... it's because they haven't contributed enough to the forums/IRC/in Client help to be considered. With this statement you are implying that mods are chosen on different grounds... otherwise... why are you saying it is not going to change? New mods get picked every time, so what exactly is not changing?

b) "There are no black mods and from these other posts there wont be any." Now do you still don't get the point that a mod isn't chosen on racial basis? Where does it say a black mod will not be chosen?? Nowhere. They are chosen on certain grounds and those grounds do not include race. So from where do you conclude we will never appoint a black mod? We only said we won't appoint a mod just because of his race (whether black, asian or whatever)

c)"My point was it astounds me that out of all the people who have played in this wonderful community called Kai not one minority mod has been selected". It's fine that this astounds you... but when TD doesn't even know most of people's ethnic background, who come you do? How do you know the ethnic background of all mods? Maybe some are jewish.. or arabic.. or eastern european.. --> what?? eastern european? Yeah in some western european countries, eastern european people are considered an ethnic minority. Just as african americans in the US. Now how is that different? How do you know which background every mod is? I am in a clan/team myself and I don't even know the ethnicity of my fellow members. Why? Because I don't care and I have never bothered to ask. That is the same with teamxlink. People get chosen on capabilitities shown, not on other things.

Now that was a long read. I will reopen this topic for a while, just to let someone reply to my post. I don't want to be seen as someone who makes his point when no one can reply.
As soon as this gets out of hands again, this topic will be locked. Team Xlink's stance is clear and nobody will be able to say we have a racist point of view nor do anything about it.

An african american mod won't help a thing.. if we don't know what is happening in chat and ingame everywhere, how will an african american know? Bottomline is, and Warmachine seems to understand and agree with this, when you encounter behaviour which is insulting, discriminating or racist in any way --> report it and action will be taken. If you don't do this, how do you expect action? None of us is allknowing/allseeing.

Kai Admirer Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 324

Just wanna say something about what Daddy wrote earlier.

TheDaddy @ Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:24 am wrote:

However, something which concerns me is the belief by African-Americans that when they use the N word, "it doesn't matter".

Sad thing is, that is ture. Head into almost any server with a lot of African-Americans you'll hear the "N" word so many times that it gets to the point of being obnoxious.

Now, I'm not trying to point fingers or anything, or saying anyone is being hypercritical; but i'm trying to say this w/o getting the whole "DZ and TA this and that"; But I have been in the TA server many times, hell for a few days I praticly lived in that server, I love the server I always have so much fun. but i heard the "N" word so many times from a black person it wasn't funny. Then i heard one English dude say it, and they all jumped on his back. Like all of a sudden they don't like it...

So maybe the word "craka" should be banned too? Some people take offence to that also. Shocked